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Home My WebLink About2013-06-05 PACKET 04.A.i.REQUEST OF' CITY COUNCiL ACTlON COUNCfL AGENDA MEETiNG fTEM # • DATE 6/Q5/9 3 � • � , • �'REPARED BY Public Wc�rks Les Burshten ORIGiNAT1NG D�PARTMENT STAFF AUTH�R �:��*�*****�*��*��*��*��***��:��*�** COUNC(L ACTION REQU�ST Accept and plac� an file the minutes of th� F'�bruary 11, 201 � F'ublic Works Commission meeting, . STAFF RECOMMENDATI�N Apprave th� February 19, 2013 minutes of the �'ublic Works Commission. BUDGET IMPLfGATION: $ BUDGETED AMOUNT ADViS�RY COMMiSSION ACTfON ❑ PLANNlNG ❑ �PUBI .IC SAFETY � PUBLIC WORKS ❑ PARKS AND RECREATION ❑ HUMAN SERVICES/RIGHTS ❑ EGONOMIC DEV. AUTHORfTY ❑ SUPPORT[NG D�CUMENTS DAT� 5/13/13 $ ACTUALAMOUN7 FUNDINGSOURC REVIEWED ❑ ❑ ❑ ❑ ❑ ❑ ❑ APPROVED ❑ ❑ � ❑ ❑ ❑ � DENIED ❑ ❑ ❑ ❑ ❑ . ❑ d ❑ MEMOJL�TT�R: ❑ RESOLUTION: � ❑ ORDINANCE: ❑ �NGINEERING REC�MMENQATIUN: ❑ LEGAL. RECOMMENDATiON: � OTHER: Approved minutes ot the February 'i 1, 2013 PWC Meeting ADMIN{STRATORS COMMENTS , 1 � � � �°�/ � ity Administrator Date ��*�*�*,��*�*��****x*��*:�*�*�� COUNCfL ACTION TAKEN: ❑ APPROVED ❑ DENIED ❑ OTHER 1.�� 1 � �� Y ! �� ./ X � �� 111P��V ��IYIIYII�� Febru�� 1'� y 20`I 3� Pursuanf to due call and notic� thereof, a meeting of #hs Pub(ic INorks Commission of Cotta�e Grove was duly held at Cottage Grove Public Works, 8G35 Wesf Point Douglas Road, Cottage Grove, Minnesota on Monday, F'ebruary 9'i, 2013 at 7:00 p.m. 1. CA�.L. TO ORDER Commissian Chair Gary Kjellberg called fihe meeting to order at 7.00 p.m. 2. ROLL CALL, Members Present: Gary Kjellberg, Jeff Podoll, Michael Edman, Matthew Forshee Members Absent: Alex Chernyaev Members Excus�d: Jeff Rolling Staff Presenfi: L.es Burshten, Director of Public Works Harry Tay[c�r, Public Works Supervisor Gary Orloff, Streets Foreman Jennifer Levitt, Community Dev�lopment Director/City Fngineer Alsa Present: Justin �[sen, City Counci! Member Cofett� Jurek, Xcel Energy Steve Koski, Xcel Energy � 3. APPROVE MINUTES October 8, 2012 and December �0, 2012 Minutes were approved. Motion made by Jeff Podoll, seconded by Michael Edman. Motion was unanimously carried. ADDITIONAL AGENDA ITEMS None. Public Works Commission February 11, 2413 — Page 2 5. NEW BUSINESS A. Electrical Underground Proposal — Presentation by Ca{et#e Jure[c and Sfev� Koski, Xcef Energy Jennifer Levitt stafed many of the City's aerial fransmission lines foll�w major road corridors in fhe community, such as Hinton Avenue, East Point Douglas Road, Jamaica Avenue and 8� Street. Th� Piablic Warks Cbrnmissian has beer� requested to analyze these areas as it is impor��nt for Council to get feedback from the Commission. The CQmmission has been asl<ed to discuss the pros and cons of aerial versus underground fransmission lines. Levitt went on to state that Ms. Jur�k and Mr. Koski will assist the group in understanding some of the costs and chal[enges of each option. Collefe Jurek explained she is the Xc�l Energy Communify Relations Manager for the area and Steve is Xcel's Area Reliability Engineer. Jurek s�ated on� of the firsf fwo items that com�s to mind with resp�ct to electric service is r�liabili#v. And the other is: What is the frequency and duration of power outaqes? Jurek summarized, "Back in 1998 there were a lat of starms that hit fihe metro area which resul#ed in widespread oufiages. The Minnesofa Public Utility System had to pay for an independent consu[tant to do a sfudy regarding r�liability, including: What was better, overhead ar underground lines? Study results indicated with overhead lines there's mor� exposure to trees, land and weather-r�lated incidents which r�sult in a larger frequency and number o� outages bufi repairs will occur in a smaller duration of #ime. With overhead Iines, XcePs crews can easily drive down khe road and visibly see what piece of equipment has b�en damaged, mak� the repair and complete th� maintenance work required. An underground system is a litt[e bit less susceptib[e fo oufiages, but you are going to have longer duration of outages, If an outage is due fio underground cable, they'll have to call in for an emergancy locate. ]t will take time for those markings to tak� place and it then has to �e dug up. In the winter, fihey'll have extra time added fio that b�cause they have to take a heafier and thaw out th� graund and then do the repair work. 1t's much mare lengthy process." Jurek added she brought with her Gopies of a 2Q0� article from Electric Perspectives Magazine. `Che arfiicle briefly talks about the price tag regarding an underground system �nd basically, people want things placed underground far aesfihetic reasons. She highlighted items of interesfi in the article. She fihen turned �he discussion over to Steve Koski so he can speak a liftle bi� about the cost factor in burying transmission lines. Area Reliability Engineer, Stev� Koski s�id, "Underground is three ta four tim�s mare �xpensive tnan overhead." Mr. Koski had some samples of transmissian wire anc� Public Works Commission February 4 9, 209 3-- Page 3 explain�d fihe insulation far overhead wire is $30.00 per foofi and $80.00 per foot for underground wiring, Koski w�n� on to stafe, "ln repairing underground fau[ts, there are five groups of people involved: your firs� responders, then a second `trouble' departm�nt #hat determines a general location of the prablem, a third group that verifies fihe exact spot, a fourth group that digs up the area and a fifth group that does the r�starafiion which can involve r�saeding, concrete panel, or b(acktop rep�ir. The restor�tion for undergrdund r�pairs is a lof longer, Addifiionally, specialized equipment is required to [ocate undergraund faulfi problems." Jurek added underground cable is not always safe from any type of storm. "A storm may come through a n�ighborhood and a resident wi(I call three or four days (ater, on a bright sunny day and fiheir power gdes out. Lightening can strike the groiand during a storm, stress the wir� and it may take up to a couple days for the fault to occur. Underground wiring does not always pr�venfi starm-r�lated outages." Commission member Michaef Edman asked, "Can you talk about the cost difference befween overhead cables and underground cable repair?" Koski r�sponde� ground res#aration could be about $6,000.00, averhead repairs would be less than $1,OQO.OQ. Edman inquired "Who bears th� cost for fihe repair if its storm relafied? Koski respond�d: "Xcel En�rgy. We do nat budget far sforms". Jurek indicated fihe funcfs come firom Operafiion and Maintenance. Edman asked `Are you self�insured7" to which Koski responded, "Yes." Jennifer Levitt inquired, "Do yau have any idea of the ratio of underground there is in the me�ro?". Jurek respon�ed that offhand she didn't, but she could find out. Koski r�spanded it's probably a 5Q-50 split. Public Works Director Les Burshfen asked if there is a different rate people wi{I pay if their lines are underground. "fs there a distinction between rates?" Jurek r�sponded there is an addition�[ cost for underground services to residents. Edman stated "Let's say I have an electric wire in my backyard ta my house and I want to put in a pool ar a hot tub and f want underground wiring at my hause_ Do you charge the hom�owner for such a request? Koski replied, "Yes, a homeowner wauld be charged $4.50 per foot for underground". Cammission Member JefF Podoll asked about #he $80.00 per lineal foot, "Does that take mto account fihe serv�ces fihat are coming off those lines7 Koski responded they are jusf talking about the brand new service. Podoll stated, "So then I'm guessing with this proposal, this does nofi take into effect Xfinity, Qwest or other u�ilities on the overhead pol�s." Kosk� respond�d that Xcel will work jointly wifih those utilities. Public Works Commissian February 11, 2013 -- Page �4 Edman inquired, "Do you have an official position?" Colef#e Jure[c responded, "No." Edman asked, "Is this a good.idea?" Koski said, "Aesfhetically, as far as everything else, resforation, or if a customer wants to be hooked up, ifi's much e�asier overhead". Edman stated, "So the objecfive reasons say absolutely not, the subjective reasans say maybe," Koski stafied, "[f you are concerned about aesthetics, that's probably the key benefit." Edman said: "[ have undergraund wiring from the streef to my house, probably, 150-200 f�et. Animafs were chewing the wires and my power would go out. Then l got a big giant green box in a horribly unfortunate location. I have the benefit of having the underground, bufi, my question is, my house is hooked up underground to the street, are we talking a�out going underground for all the houses along there or are they hooked up somewhere else?" L.evitt responded, "fn new residential d�velapments, everything is underground." . Edman stat�d "What I'm trying to get at, ,will there be homeown�rs that have new electrical lines running from their property, whether they're feeder lines or lines to their house, that wauld prevent them fram building a garage or prevent them from building a fence? Or cause them a hassle fior Iandscaping?" Koski responded that mare than like[y, everyfihing would be in the road ri�ht o� way. Kjellberg asked, "�n addition to this $80.00 p�r foafi for underground wiring, wauld that be in addition to fihat box that would cost $25 grand7' Levitt stated, "Mr. Chair, fihat's why I'm here. That cost analysis; we added 30% for thase things, the ground conditions we encount�r. Thafi's why we added it to the surv�y." Kje[lberg asiced, "Th�se numbers, what the estimate is fior underground wires at these Eocatians. W�'re talking ov�r $7'/2 million dallars. Yau want fio do all that just ta make samething look pretfy? I don't know if this is the righfi #ime or not, but in aIl due respect whoever thaught this up, [ don't think this is a gaod idea. I know Hinfioi� was �rought up. That's aver $500,000 just to make something laok a fittls pretty. I can't s�e thafi, throwing money away I�Ke that." Kjellberg wenfi on to say "I've been very supportive of the Council over #he years, but when we're talking about this, I just can't. f don't know wha thaught this up or where the idea came from. I can just imagin� whafi the taxpayers would say aboufi this especiaf[y with th� feedback on City Hall and Public Saf�ty, That was a necessity, but this?" , Jeff Podoll added, "1 agree, if you want to spend mon�y fio ma[ce things look better, why don't you, for example, focus on Jamaica, between the sidewalk and the curb. lt's a[1 weeds and dead grass. Why not spend money fixing that? l know about �5 years ago, we fihought about putting pavers in ther�. These funds would go a long way to dQing �hat. If yau want it to look better, 1 dan't think, personally, that poles are that bad". Public Works Commission February 1 �, 2013 — Page 5 . Gary Kjellberg stated, "There are poles in tawn that I don't even notice. The money spent �'or this could repface hoc{cey rinks or do some mor� with the warming houses. Put in something tangible the taxpay�rs ean see and we can use for years to com�. I'm speaking for myself on this and I think a lot of people would agree with me. But this, th� question 1 have, ( don't s�e the need personally. [ don't know where the money is coming from". �dman asked "Is there a pian afi all?" . Levitt responded, "f can speak to a couple of projects, for example on �ast Point Dauglas by Vl/al-Mart, where we are ex#ending East Point Daugias. There's a unique opportunity in looking to upgrade that line. In 2014, maybe we can accelerate that to 2Q13, b�cause our utilities are going in th� right-af way, we would relocate that, for an economic standpaint. From Menards ta the Rass Proper�y at East Point Douglas, those u#ilities are in fihe way and they have to. move, at their cosfi, not at ours. Those costs would be credited fio the Gify. We anly pay the difFerence to go und�rground so in that example, it's more economical. It's nof costing us millions af dollars in that insfiance". Jeff Podofl stated, 'Bac[c around '15 or 16 years ago, Hadley upgraded their system. Had[ey went averhead {by Pine Hill Efementary), And I remember af that point in time we didn't know they wer� gaing overhead and they had a hissy fit about if. lfi was thought if they had to redo their iines, they wou[c[ have to go undergraund". Xce1 Community Relations Manager Coletfie Jurek expfained, "Under the Minnesofa Public Utilities System, we have construction tariffs, which are the rules that dictate our aperating standards and when we do any type of relocation or line upgrade, it's typically... lefi's say yau had an overhead line. The City is doing a street projecf in the roadway and we have to move out of fhe right�ofi way af our expense. We would instal! that or do overhead to overhead. ln �002, 3M was building an Imation building on Highway 5 in Oakdale which is a Caunty road. We were running ouerhead lines and the City of Oakdale wanted them underground. That case w�nt aIl the way to the Supreme CourE. What came out of it was a tariff. The ouficome of that case was thafi the City has th� authority ta direct the ufiility to go underground, BUT the City is responsible for inGretr�ental cosfs. The reason or the rationale behind that, gets back fio cost factor, that increased cost of building. That, meaning citizens in Cottage Grove, should not be paying underground costs so the City always has the authority to direct the lines undergraund, but mus# absorb the increased costs". Edman inquired, "So, what would the diff�rence be for the East Point Douglas area?" Jennifer Levitt responded, "The designers just met last weelc to find which poles are in the way. The final number, in that case, there are two options: either that's a project cost borne by fhe project or bond sales or the Streetfight Utility Fund. In that example, that's how we pay for that, The ex�mple I have is relocating the line at 70 Str�et. We're asking Xcel to tel[ us what the cost is, to go underground for the proj�ct. lf Public Works Commission February 11, 2013 — Page 6 there's an economic advantage for the City since th�y have to relocate, rather fhan �aying $50.00 per foot, it will be $50.00 per foot to go underground which is more economical. Mos# (ikely in that case, it wil[ be borne by the Str�et[ight Utility. There is a secand option that exists. Given your attitude, I don't know if ] want to fiell you this but, there is a�other optian that exists. The City can bear the cost up front for al1 the expenses and then most likely #unds wi(I com� from the Streetlight Utility. The second option �s, Xcel can add ifi to the bill af every meter in fiown for the improvements requested here in Cottage Grove. Xcel would be requested to tag every bill payer in town". Colette Jurek explained this would b� considered a CF2F5 (City Request Facility Surcharge). KjelEbarg stated, "Whether it be East Poinfi Douglas or 7D'" Street, if Xcel has ta move their equipment, they would exchange it for what we had, righfi? Go overhead to overhead. And the City wouldn't have tn pay for that, right? There would be no cost?", Jurek r�plied, "No." Kj�llberg stated, "To go underground, i�'s $50 E�ucks per foot. How can fihat be economical? Aiready it's above ground and Xcel will move it for free, so [ don't se�,..." Edman stated: "Option 1 would be do nothing. Th�y pay fior a[l to stay above ground. But if they ga below groL�nd, is #hat wh�re you can tag all #he m�ters?" Jurek responded, "The surcharge only p�r�ains to a direction to go undergraund". Kjellberg said, "Carrect me if I'm wrong; it's $50 dollars per foot, all the people in Cottage Grove with a meter would be paying fioo, right?" Colette responded, "If fihe City directs us fia bury the lines, they pay for that up front: If we do the surcharge, �haf ineans you tak� the incr�menta[ cost. �ur rate departmenfi goes bacic and we l�ave a caunt of ail fhe residential meters and comm�rcial meters in the City. We take fihat increm�ntal cosfi and our parameters of the City-requesfied surcharg�. This has to be paid within, I�hink 5 years. There's a minimum amount on each meter and a maximum amount analysis. It mighfi be $.50 cents per met�r up to 3 years, it might be $'I.50 per residentiai m�ter for 3 years... we woUld have to run thaf anaiysis. Then, thafi amount gets applied and it shaws up on our customers' bills as a Cify Requested Fee." Edman asked, "What aboufi business meters?" Jurek responded they woulc� have a different rate. Gary Kjellberg said, "lf ! had �o make the decision myself, I vote for th� one that won't cosfi the City anyfihing and won'fi cost the taxpayers any money. I would be really upset if fihase costs were tacked an my meter for something by Wal-M�rt or on 70th Street and County Road 19. I would {ceep it above ground and it won't cosfi anybody anything, that's fih� w�y I would look a# it. I would think Council would look at it that way too." L.evitt cornmented, "One of the a�her benefits far us is if there is infierest tacked on ta the praject, if we fund it up front, we're nafi paying interesfi". Kjellberg r�sponded, "You're sti11 Public Works Commission February � 1, 2013 �- Page 7 paying $50 dollars p�r faat which is samething". Edman stated, "Ifi's still not mor� economical than zero". L�vitt st�#ed, "The other project I want to highlight is Hinton Avenue. Obviously we are replacing the trails and a[ot of restoration work on that corridor that helps tie ihfia fhe effiGiency of th� undergraund service factor and restoration. All lumped together it's a liftle more on the economy scale. In fact we are already doing restoratian work and trail work". Kjeflberg s#afed, "Once again, the underground cost. I don't see wh�re ifi's benefitting anyfihing. We're fhrowing a lot af money out there and we're talking about aesthetics. 70 and Hinton, you've gofi fhe substatian there. That's not going anywhere. 1 just don'fi get it". Edman sta�ed, "1 think this is a negligible aesthefiics argument", Kjell�erg stated, "[f ifi ain't broke, don't fix it". Edrnai� agr�ed, stating, "ft's just tremendously expensive. !�'s a negligible benefiit. You can have a massi�e project at 70 on Hinton, there's a scale argument. What aboufi 65tn?» Council Member Jusfiin Ofsen inquired of Xcel, "You firsf inentioned in your presen�afiian fih�t overhead lines have a greater freq�aency of oufages. And you talked abaut the cost ratio. You gave an estimation af what that mighfi cost. And you gave an ap�roximation of what an overhead line would take fio repair. But that's not really apples to apples until you know what fihe ratio of outages to outages is". Olsen stated, "1f yau are paying a thousand dollars for one, and five fhousand for the other, you have a� 0 to � ratia, paying more for the cheaper ane. Sa I would like to know that. Your overhead lines are subject to the elements, ln addition, there is a Public Safety perspectiv�: Automobile accidents, fires, downed lines. Fire Depar�ments deal wifih lines down every year. About 2 y�ars ago we had a 17� year- old young man who was killed over�on Sunny Hill Road b�cause his vehicl� went airborne and he went under poles, a pole sheared in ha[f and the lines came down on �his car and as he tried #o escape the v�hicle, as fhe Po(ice were approaching, he was electrocut�d to deafih an� essenfiia(ly cut in haif. By electricity. That doesn't happen wit1� underground pawer lines and l'd like to hear mor� about the, number of accidents in the Twin Cifiy Metro related to overhead versus undergrouncf.. It's gre�t �hat you braughfi this little piece (article) up, buf it does nothing for me. lfi's wriften by a guy who worked for the Edison Council who r�presents people �t your companies. It's propaganda lt's good propaganda but it's propaganda_ 1'd like a more objective view of things and so it would help me to undersfiand, as a Councif inember, what som� of the ancillary costs are to the decision. It's real easy to say, `Qo ifi cheap.' But is ifi cheap? You get what you pay for when you buy a cheap TV too so l'd I�ke to know thaf and if you can prov� ifi to me, th�n prove it to me. But there are questions our Council will have because there are four Council members who are interested in this so obviausly it's more fihan just ane person who thinks this may be a good idea." Public Works Commissian F'ebruary 1'I, 2q13 — Page 8 Olsen continued, "Property values? Wha� are the proper�y values on homes that have an overhead properfy or a pawer line in front of their house or an their property versus underground? That would be interesting to know too. And then finally, what is the perspective of the MPUC? (Minnesota Pubfic Utilifiies Commission). What do th�y prefer and why? I think i� would be good fo bring all of fih�t in �ront of aur Council. �.ike I said, fihere were four members who were interested. My guess is that they will have addifional questions beyond that". Kjellberg s#afed, "On Sunny Hill Road, OK, thafi's � dirt road. What 1 wou[c( [ik� to know an this particular situation, how fast was this guy going?" Olsen rsspanded, "He was gaing too fasfi". Kjellberg commented, "lt's Woodbury, it's a dirt road, and if you are going speeds Iike thafi, the fact there is a pole there wauIdn't have been an issue if you were abiding the sp��d I�mit, plus the canditions of th� road, so on and so forth. [t's unfortunat�." Olsen stated, "if he had hit a fence and wouldn`t have hifi a power pole, he would have Iived". Kjellberg stated, "When [ lived in the City of St. Paul that 's all I had was wires overhead and ( don't agree with you on fhat, It would be nice to have the money to do all fihis but w� don't have the money. Once again, I would like to know how many peop(e got kill�d on Hintan...l'm sorry I'm getting off the beaten path h�re but I'm upset about this whole thing �ecause of some other things brought up that have nathing to do with this. Th� kid on Sunny Hill Road, you brought that up, if he was driving the way h� was supposed to an a dirt raad and whatever else. Did the cops chase him?" Olsen respond�d, "No." and then said, "The point of th� matter is, there's a Pub[ic Safety cost to averhead power poles. Just like our firefighters when we have a bad sfiarm [ike we had over here in Pine Coulee a few years'ago and we had power lines dawn all ov�r the pface. They have to come in and try fio exercise extrication, get somebody out of a vehicie. Or there's a fire on a property, you have an overhead power line to deal with, it's live, versus an underground power line thafi's live. It adds additional danger, it adds additiona( cosfi." Kjellberg stated, "1 agree with that". plsen said, "So, those are the sorts af things that will go into cansideration v,rith respect to what is the overall cost_ There's an opportun'tty cost and there's a straight cost, so my guess is, if you look at communities wh�re most of the power lin�s are underground, you have a much greater opportunity for your Public Safety Departmen# fio do their jab withaut having to worry about thafi �nciflary piece of infrasfiructure gefting in their way. Like [ said aboufi the young man who crashed, the r�asan he died isn't because when he hit fhe pole, it's wh�n he got out of the car and he �ouched a live pow�r line. Had it not b�en there, he would have lived." Pubiic Works Commission February 'I'f, 2013 -- Page 9 Gary Kjeilb�rg stated, "There's so much wire above ground in this country. If you put everything belbw ground there's a cost fac�or invalv�d". Olsen stated, "f don't be[ieve the Cotanci[ is mfieresfed in pu##ing everything below ground. But what they are inter�sted in is finding out since we're already d�gging up fhe road, for exampl�, if you are doing thafi project, does it mak� sense to go underground or not whi(e you are already doing that project and if so, why, and if nat, why? And I fihink fher� are a lot of unanswered questions." - Edman added, "How many accidents have been with fhese poles, How many times has the F'ire Department had to deal with these poles� Those poles have �een here for a long time so there would be ample data" Steve Koski asked if fihe group is reques�ing figures from the Metro Area of Cottage Grove? �dman responded, "Both" Edman stafied, "I'm also pondering if you put this as part of the project for the rQad, does it increase the assessment value? Could that be a problem up frorif?". Olsen responded "It won't increase the assessment value. We wouldn't charge an ass�ssment. No, it wouldn't be dane fhat way, it would be paid up front, cash, out ; of the enterprise fund. And the cash is ther� to ufiilize what we need for a number of things. Pic3c Your Poison. This is an option, there are a(at of options. One of the options is do nothing and ti�a� is why we ask the question. What do we need ta da or not do, and why? 1#hink it gaes way beyond any aesthetics. As a matter of fact, aesthetics wasn'# even brought up as a reason for consider[ng it." Gary Kjellberg said, "As Michael brought �.ap, f've be�n here �40 years, 1 would (ike fo knaw haw many problems there have been with peaple running infio poles in Cattage Grove. You can't protect people from everything. It's impossibl�." Olsen respond�d, "True". Stre�t Foreman Gary Orloff commented "When I was an the Fire Department, befare I Game to work for Public Works, [ worked as a firefighter following a windstorm. It was our worst �Fear, climbing through all thase trees with the lines dawn". Orloff continued, "It's easy for a lot of people to say unless you have been ther� and see what happens. lt may have happen�d a long time ago. Luckily no one did get hurt but thafi isn'fi going to �e the only sfiorm tha# comes through this town". Jeff Podoll remarked, "We laaked inta going �o underground wiring for pavem�nt management and it was way too expensive fo do.". Jeff Podoll asked, "Jennifer, since you brought this up a cauple times and Justin too, how can you tap th� Streetlight Fund for things that don't involve streetlighfs?" Levitt responded, "of course they pawer the streetlights". Podoll said, "Yes, but there are na lights on 70 Street, no streetlights on East Point Douglas. [ was always under the impression wh�n running that enterprise fund it was only for the s�ructural elements of the streetlight. You can't }usfi take out mor�ey and put in new electrical lines wher�ver." Public 1Norks Commission February 11, 2013 — Page 1Q "!s this going befiore any ofiher commission?" asked Gary Kjellberg. Levitt responded the Public Safety Commission is their next stop," Kjellberg stated, "Talking about going form zero cost to $50.00 to $80.�0 per foot cost, ) car�'t justify that. It's unfortunate if someone gets hurf or whatev�r, you can't build things fio totally keep peaple safe". Edman said, "I agree wi#h you. 1 think it's a terrible idea. I think, doing this at the Wal- lVlarfi site, that is such a uniqu� new development scenaria with special unique circumstances. Using the Streetligh# Ent�rprise Fund, thaf sounds squishy to me, 1 want to know more. The dollar amount. lt's just astronamical. If we ar� worrying aboufi Public Safety or .aesthetic things ! can give you a lisfi of ten things that wauld be a fraction of cost of this."- "This is such a big deal", said Gary Kjeliberg, "I would like to see how this is disseminated to the people affected by ifi, tax dollars being spent. This is sa wrong, in my opinian. Do you need a motian? 1'm going fo make a recarnmendation thafi, before I do tha#, The Wal-Mart thing, you still aren't going to convince me that paying $54 bucks � fOQ� IS WOt`�Il It but if it's going to affect 1Nafmar�, if it's going ta be for.fheir benefit.... MOTION MADE BY MICHAEL EDMAN, S�CQNDED BY JEFF PODOLL, THAT COUNCIL NOT PROCEED WITH THE OPTION OF UNDERGR(�UND ELECTR[CAL VERUS OVERHEAD ELECTRICAL. MOTION WAS UNANIMOUSLY CARRIED. Colette Jurek and Steve Koski w�re thank�d far coming this evening. They will come back with fihe data and information requested, such as questions about praperty values, the ratio of out�ges; underground to overground and net cost on that and the life cycle of the undergraund cabl� versus th� averhead I[ne. Podoff stafed at this time we have a lot of problems with the underground wiring adding, "Working on streetlights for 14 years, streetlights were wired above ground, that woulc� have besn So easy to fiin� where the problems are. They had a lot of problems with a►ot of the house services and stufF like #hat, the fransmission lines, prefty much the spfices were the prob[ems fhat I saw". Mike Edman said, "I would want to see a 20 year window. VVhat is the Xcel cos� over 20 years to fix overhead versus underground7 Yau have to have a s�.�bsfiar�tial difference of a hug� dbllar amount to make thaf capitaf ouflay to pay to go underground." Jeff I'odoA asked, "Wha# is�fhe life expectancy of overhead power lines? Koski responded, "ft's a lot longer than �40 years. We ha�e poles from fihe 192a's." Council Member �Isen added he would like a recommendation, and why, from th� MPUC as well. Public Works Commission February 1'4, 2�13 — Page 1� 6. 01.� BUSINESS A. City Stop Sign — 87�" and Grenadier "At the December meeting", stated L�vitt, this ifem was broughfi before you, but there was no quorum. lt was discuss�d and you denied fhe re�uest for a stop sign primarily c[ue to the study that was compiefed in 2004 when we analyzed the Thompson Grave neighborhaods, as a whole. ft was also discussed that stop signs don't cor�trol speed, so ta be consistent with that study done in 200�4, we are recommending deniaf af the cify stop sign request.° Edman asked, "Has something changed since November?" "No" state� Levitt. Gary Kj�llberg stated, "1 agree. We have a policy in p[ac�, that's why we put in a policy. People dbn't understand, they thinlc stop signs control s�esd, that's t�ot true. You already send a l�tter auf, didn't you?" L..evitt stated #he citiz�n has a right to request this body ta review the request. Her nexfi option would be to go before fihe Council. Edman asked, "Was she invited to come to the meeting?" Levitt said, "Sh� was nofified". Kjelfberg said, "1 go along with whafi the policy sfates" and recommend the denial. Motian made by Jeff Podoll, secondeci by Ntatthew Forshee, to deny the r�quest for a stop sign a� the intersect�on of 87 and Grenadier, Motion was unanimousIy carried. 7. ENGINE�R.S REP(3R.T City Engineer Jennifer Levitt comment�d that the 2013 Pa�ement Management Rehabilitation Praject and the rehabilita�ion ofi Hintan Aven��e between 70 Stre�t and 80 Street is going up before the Counci) at a public hearing on February. 20 "Rignt now, we hav� 793 residents that are being assessed as park of tha# project. Both fihe district north of 80 Streef, east of Jamaica and west of Cou��ty Road 19, have a full reconstruct originally s[ated for reconstruction in � 999, their assessment is estimated at $4,10U for a single family home. And then mu{ti- family units, full recanstruction cosfi wilf each be $�,G00. And if you are in the mil[ and overly ar�a, and fhen if you are a single family unit and in the mi(I and over(ay, it wi[l b� $2,500. And if you ar� the school districfi, a lot more; $68,900 for the schooL That goes before the Council on the 2p Vl/e'll be doing our typical improvements to th� park system and should be getting a new parking lot, trail system and an el�ctrical update fior Strawb�rry F'est: Lots of trail construction. Many of you ar� aware of much of this because yau worked on the [MTF policy." Levitt also menfioned the 70 S�r�et realignmenfi project is in conjunction wifih the Watershed District and wil[ tatal approximately $'10 million doilars. She noted this is a very challenging project due ta the 72" pipe that must be plac�d 50 feet in the ground, Public Works Commission February 11, 2013 — Page 12 Newland Properki�s has made a preliminary plat app[ication for 92 lots. There wili be two developments under construction for mass site grading this spring, The former Wheels for Travel property has been bought by the Cify of Cottage Grove and will be sold to #he Watershed District. 8. PUBL[C WORKS UPDATE Les BL�rshten reported: Water Meter Replacement Proqram 0 The City is in the process of working with #he Cities of South St. Paul and Stillwater for a joint meter replacement program. The Cit�y intends to replace 1,500 meters per year, Bids will.be ope�ed on F'�bruary 21S Snow Removal e Presently there's been 30 inches of snow this year, (ast year we had 22 inches and the year befare, there was a tatal of 84 inches. Crews have been out 28-29 times this season not just t'or snow removal but for ice con�rol due to rain and sleet. Trash Truck Purchase Staff is in the final stages of gathering infarmation for the purchase of a new trash truck. Tre� Trimming Staff has begun the process of tree trimming and beginning shortly, St, Croix Tree Service will be in town to trim an additianal 1,20Q fire�s. Seal Coatinq Street Stripinq, Street Sweepinq, Crack Sealinq Bids are being sought for the above projects. Once again, the Cify will be working with the Cities of Sf. Paul Park, Newpart and Denm�rk Township for some of these services. MERG[NG 4� PUBLIC SA�'�TY AND PUBI�IC WORKS CONtM1SS10N Commission M�mber Jeff Podnll mentianed that he had heard discussion abaut the possible merging of the Public Works and Pi�blic Safety Commissions and stated, "1 don't realfy [cnow too much about Pubfic Safety and I dan'f car� to. Somebody just tell me `why'." Cr�uncil Member Justin Olssr� responded, "Actually, it's been a topic ofi conversation for a number of years. A lot af what you guys talk abau� crosses ov�r, so one of the things we talked about in our goal settir�g session this year is that it's worthwhi(e to have a conversafion about. Daes it make sense to combine the #wn commissions? � The reason this time frame was chosen was because �his is fh� time peopl�`s commission terms expire and if yau were gomg to replace commissioners on your commission, now wou(d be the time to do thafi." Public Works Commission �ebruary 11, 20�3 — Page 13 Olsen canfiinued to state, °The other option is if you were to mold the two commissions �ogether, then you would essentialfy want a larg�r commission and be res�onsib[e for both areas, under one bigger umbrella, and then as attrition occurs, back down to a 9 ar 7 member body, The P�iblic Safety mee#ings are under the dir�ction of Captain Pete Koerner and he has sort of been driving fhis bus for a number of years because he has noticed there is a laf of back and forth in the commission packets, like the sfop sign requ�st. There's a Public Safety component #o fihat. That would be something both Public Works and Public Safety coulci have a conversafiian about. Both of the cammissions would discuss it from their point o�F view. This is one of the reasons it was brought forward and the direction was to have L.es and Pete talk it through and see at the end af the conversation if #here was any benefit to it and fihen report back. Gary Kjellberg stat�d, "I would like to keep fhem separa#e. For the most parfi, in the Public Works Commission, we falk abaut se�arate, different things," Commission Member Michael Edman added "we have difficulty keeping our meefings to 1%2 or 2 hours in length. With both groups cambined ifi wauld be difficulfi". At the end af the meeting, Council Memb�r Olsen stated, "The ather thing, part of the conversation, is that sometimes your commission doesn't meet every month, some meetings are cancellec[. That's anofher argument for.... Kjellberg concluded: "Keep in mind. 1'm against the merger." 9. CITY COUNCIL UPpATE Council Member Jusfiin Olsen stated, "As #he new Gommission Liaison, l want to spend a few minutes talking aboufi whaf yau want from me. 1 don't knaw how yau're used to your meetings operating and if you want your liaison's input or lack thereaf, GeneralEy speaking what I have dor�e in my other liaison assignments is essen�ially stayed sil�nt unless there was something 1 needed to contribute for whatever reasan or was asked and then when it came time to provide a City Council upda�e, it was an open exchange and I asked what wau(d you like to know? As residents of fihe community, anything yau want to know, 1 can tell, and not hide and if 1 dan't know I wEll certainly try and find aut for you but my job is to be tha conduit for information back and forth between you and the City Council so that's really what ('m here to do.° Commission Chair Gary Kj�llberg responded, "Whatever is pertinent, correcfi me if 1'm wrong, whatever you need, it doesn't have fio pertain to necessarily to Public Works, but what�ver you think w� should know about°. Cammission 1111�mber Michael Edman said, "1 want you to ask the guestions, see where you are caming from. Derrick would ask questions an� let us take the lead." Public Works Commission February 1'f, 2093 — Page 14 Councif Member Olsen stated, "f'm a very #ransparenfi guy so anything you wanfi fio know you can ask me and ('ll tell you. 1 don't have a lot to hide. As far as what is going on, f'!i just bring you up to speed since January, You maybe know some of this stuff already. I apo[ogize if you do. We closed the books on the Public Safefy Gity Hall Project, the final bill came through and I believe it came at $14.99 million dollars, total project cost, which was well under the initial estimate of $'i7 millian and the engineer's estimafie of $16.2 miIlion which was refined, We ow� a significant debt flf gratitude to Graham Constructian and Wald Architects and all the folks from the City who par�icipated in the variaus working groups for that facilify." "Same of you may b� aware th�re's been some conversafion in the community and a# the Council table about urban fiarming and that conversafiion sar� of confinues. There are probably more people than choose to come fio th� Counci[ meefiing who have currentEy in one shape or form urban farm chicEcen, ducks, or that sor� of thing. The conversation that is occurring is Do we change the current ordinanc� ar not? Some p�ople are in violation and have petifiioned the City to ask if i# would make sense to revise fhis ordinanc� based on the large part fihat a number of communities in the Twin City Mefro Area hav� updated their ordinance over the past years to become a little more friendly ta th� urban farming idea. The Planning Commission and the Public Safety Commission evaluated.this idea, however, did not reach a decision because this is ultimately a policy decision of the Council. Council has asked for additiona[ Enformafion from staff." Commission M�mber Jeff Podoll asked if fihere have been complaints from neighbors. Council Member Olsen respond�d al[ but one neighbor signed a petition indicating they were fine with the urban farming. Edman stated if the resident appeared before the Council far a canditiana[ use permit chances are slim it wQUld be approved becaus� af the restrictiue nature o�F the current ardinance and it wouid take just one neighbor to show a hardship. Councii Member Olsen indicated in Old Cottage Grove there are property owners on less than five acres who h�ve chick�ns, ducks and farm anima[s. "What is the classification of a farm animal? For example, we had a woman come befor� the Council last week who said she woufd like to bring a pot bellied pig into the home as a therapy animal. So there's your instance for a condifiional us� permif, sa......fihere's all kinds of taies. And as you know, there are an awful lot of opinions about an awful lot af things and we try and hash through all that to see if we want fio do anything differenfly or ttie same? We're asking a lot of questions right now". Olsen went on fo state, "The other fihing we have been talking a lot aboufi is, `What are our goals and objectives relative to 2013/2014. We had a full�day goal setting session as we da every year, This year we had it at the new City Hall facility where we bring in all of our staff directars along with the Council and we essentially spend 8, 9, 10 hours Public Works Commission February 11, 2013 — Page 15 fiafking about, you name it. and try to s�# gaals and direcfiion for the City relative to ali of the areas of operatibn. One af the prime �hemes was continuation of our Good to Gr'eat project and how we drive those values and cantinue to support that cul�ure and all various departmenfis and so thafi was a significant topic of conversation. �ne af the other topics of coriversation that was significant was, `Are we fully ufiilizing all the techno(ogy that's available to us and if not, why not? Is it a cost issue7 ls it a cornfart level issue? What sar# of benefit could we reafize that we are not realizing, what are the shork and long term costs. We had a lengthy conversation about fund bal�nce and having a separate workshop on targeting fund balance in each of our funds. For example, the Streetlighfi �und. How much is the right amount to have in there? The Water Fund, haw much is the right amou��t to have in there. . SfiafF will try and utilize some of fihe guidance we get from the State Auditor but then also from a common sense perspective. lf the boifer breaks what does it cost to fix it, sa we can have a better und�rstanding as a Council of currenf fund balance level: is it right? Too much or tao f ittle? "The other thing we talked aboufi at our retreat, repor�ed Council Member Olsen, is that we currently have a Cop Medic model and a F'ire Medic model fiogether in aur Public Safety Departm�nt and the I'ubfic Safety Director's goal is to fry and firansition that infia a Fire M�dic model because th� Cap Model is a real(y difficult one to maintain from a personnel perspective, Most of fhe people you hir� as cops are medics first, then frain to become cops and wifih attrition, some don't like �eing a cop, they like being a medic. It makes for a difficult sche�ule each year and making sure the other medics are cover�d. So there's a transition there that can be don� at a net zero cost and so we're gradually transitianing thafi over the course of a 5� year plan". °Thase are the main topics of conversation", stated Olsen. "Obviously �here was talk abaut projects and Public 1Norks� rel�ted things fihat you knaw aiready. Any other questions you have for me aboufi whaf might be going on in fihe City? 4r is th�re anything you n�ed me #o take back fio Council?" There were no further questions. '! 0. COMM[SSIQN C�MIItIENTS AND REQUESTS Gary Kjellberg wan#�d Public Worl<s Staff to pass onto the Parics cr�w fihe complim�nts he received while he was working at fhe Pine Tree Valley skating rink {Gary is employed as a rink attendant for the City). He really appreciat�s all their hard work: He also indicat�d this is his last meeting and he wished to say Thank Yvu to the Commission. Public Works Commission February 91, 2013 � Page 16 1'I. ADJOURNMENT Motion to adjourn was made by Michael Edman, seconded by Matthew F'orshee. Motion was unanimausly carried and meeting adjourned at 8;51 pm. Respectfukly submitted, �atric�a �StoYb�