HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023-07-26 City Council Special Meeting (Minutes)
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MINUTES
COTTAGE GROVE CITY COUNCIL July 26, 2023
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
12800 RAVINE PARKWAY SOUTH
SPECIAL MEETING - 6:00 P.M.
TRAINING ROOM
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Bailey called the Special Meeting to order at 6:00 p.m.
2. ROLL CALL
City Clerk Tammy Anderson called the roll: Mayor Bailey-Here; Council Member
Khambata-Here; Council Member Dennis-Here; Council Member Thiede-Here; Council
Member Olsen-Here.
3. REGULAR AGENDA
A. Adult Use Cannabis
Staff Recommendation: Discuss the possible adoption of an Interim
Ordinance prohibiting the establishment of new uses related to cannabis
businesses and an ordinance prohibiting cannabis use within public
property and public places.
Mayor Bailey stated City Attorney Kori Land will speak on this topic.
Attorney Land stated she will be asking two questions at the end of her presentation
that she wants the Council to address: 1) Should we adopt a moratorium on adult use of
cannabis that was just passed in the latest legislative session; 2) Do we want to define
and prohibit the use in public spaces.
She stated a year ago, the 2022 legislature surprised us with what we called the
CBD version of cannabis; it was a hemp-derived product and was found in Minnesota
State Statute 151.72, which allowed THC in products, 5 mg. per serving or 50 mg. per
package. There were a number of other rules but the main thing is it was considered the
low dose, it was marijuana like, if you will.
Now, with today’s legislation, she thinks they’ve relabeled it low potency cannabis;
they didn’t say that in the legislation, but we believe that to be true because 151.72
goes away on March 1, 2025. So, that means that all of those CBD uses no longer will
be called CBD uses; they have to be called something else. She believes they meant to
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July 26, 2023
Page 2
incorporate 151.72 type uses in the new legislation and relabeled it low potency. So,
we’re still talking about intoxicating CBD, it’s just a lower version of it. As you know, if
you have enough of the lower version, you’re still going to be intoxicated, but that’s
beside the point.
As a result of the 2022 legislation, we adopted our ordinance regulations solely
around those definitions of the low-dose CBD. Again, any hemp-derived product that
has a trace of THC in it is what’s defined in our ordinance; it can be sold, and we have a
restriction that it cannot be sold at off sales, so not at liquor stores, and not at on sales,
so no restaurants with on sale licenses can sell these low-dose THC products. We also
have a provision in there that it can’t be sold by transient merchants, or peddlers. That
means that nobody can sell it at Special Events in town because those are vendors;
transient merchants do not have a storefront. We also restricted the sale to certain
Zoning Districts, the B3, PB, and MU. Around the Target area is where the only shop
that’s applied for a license is located; that is the only store in town that should be selling
CBD-related cannabis.
It is very important in this world of chaos to understand that nobody else in town
should be selling cannabis products, only that one licensed business. She knows that’s
not true; she knows there are businesses that are selling it because the legislature put
all of these crazy rules in place and said it’s effective immediately. So, nobody knew
what they could or could not sell, but the only thing that can legally be sold right now is
the low-potency cannabis; according to our rules, it can only be sold in certain Zoning
Districts, and everybody has to have a license. Regardless of all the stuff the legislature
just did, our rules still apply. But because there’s so much confusion and chaos, we
have not enforced it against anyone; we just tell them to stop selling it. She knows
there’s at least one liquor store in town that’s selling it. We have not gone and
confiscated all of it, seized it, and taken it off their shelves. We told them we’re looking
at the issue. She also didn’t want to do that, not knowing where the Council wants to go
with this, because this is a policy-related decision, and it’s within your jurisdiction to
decide if you want to change your mind. We currently don’t allow them at liquor stores;
we currently don’t allow them at places that have on-sale liquor licenses. You can
change your mind, but because we have that on the books, we can enforce it; we’re
choosing not to, we’re just notifying, telling them Council is looking at it, but under our
ordinance it’s not legal.
The legislature created a whole official licensing process for all of the adult use
cannabis related uses. So, these are official: Recreational, only to the point of 0.3%
THC. She’d previously told Council that 0.3% was this imaginary line, where somebody
decided that below 0.3% was not intoxicating or was less intoxicating, and 0.3% or
above is intoxicating. This is above 0.3% THC, so this is the truly intoxicating marijuana,
cannabis, and they have created some very different categories; these are all the
different categories of businesses that can be selling, using, making, testing, delivering
all of the cannabis uses. She thinks there are 16 different licenses; there are four that
we care about within our community, as there are four that we have some say over the
retail portion, interface with the public: 1) Retail uses, which are the low potency (the
one that currently exists, we can still regulate that); 2) A retailer of the above 0.3% THC;
3) A medical business, a seed-to-sale business. For example, Leafline Labs, as they’re
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July 26, 2023
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growing/manufacturing it, and we previously restricted them to not be able to sell it; if
they could, that would be a seed-to-sale; 4) A microbusiness is the smaller version, a
mezzobusiness is the larger version; there are also square-footage requirements and
definitions associated with those. There are four retail types of uses that we can
regulate because we have zoning authority over those retail uses. We can also zone the
other uses: we’ll allow manufacturing here, we’ll allow growing here. So, there are other
zoning restrictions that we can put, but we only get to register and sort of monitor the
retail space.
What the legislature also said was they have to create an Office of Cannabis
Management to license these businesses. They will not have anything in place until at
least January 1, 2025; that’s why she says nobody is authorized to sell adult use
cannabis today because that Office of Cannabis Management isn’t yet in place, it
doesn’t exist yet. They’re creating it and they will, but they won’t be ready to issue any
licenses until 2025. So, nobody is authorized to sell adult use cannabis today.
Statute 151.72 exists, and that is what’s enforceable, uses of low potency edibles.
When the Office of Cannabis Management becomes effective, and when it is actually
operating and issuing licenses, that’s when we have to have our correct zoning things in
place to regulate them appropriately, we can license and we can register. We can’t have
any licensing kind of restrictions, but we can have time, place, and other regulations in
our zoning ordinance. By then, we need to be up to speed on what Council wants to do
with all of the cannabis uses. These are all the different kinds of cannabis businesses,
and she thinks there are two others, as they don’t have low-potency licensing, because
right now they’re just calling it registrations; so, she doesn’t know if low potency is going
to make the list later, but they’re not considered a cannabis business, but will still be
required to get a license in 2025.
This is why there’s chaos because some of the legislation says it is effective upon
enactment; for example, off-sale edible cannabinoids are allowed at liquor stores now,
except our ordinance doesn’t allow it. So, we can be more restrictive than State law.
State law says there is this gray area about whether or not it’s considered an edible
product, and we’re poking our finger in the eye of AGE (Alcohol and Gambling
Enforcement), who said it cannot be sold at liquor stores. The legislation says yes, it
can, but our ordinance says it can’t. So, it’s not to say we’re preempting that; we are
being more restrictive. Again, we’re not going to go after anybody that is selling it
because it’s confusing and because she doesn’t know the Council’s intentions.
As of August 1, next Tuesday, adult use of cannabis is allowed, but that’s the use,
not the sale. So, if you catch somebody using it, can you ask them where they got it
because it’s illegal to sell it; it’s not illegal to buy it, it’s illegal to sell it. Maybe they got it
out of state, maybe they got it at some perfectly legitimate online place where they
could do that. But nobody in the State of Minnesota can be selling adult use cannabis. A
lot of this Statute said it’s effective upon enactment, but nobody can sell until January 1,
2025, at the earliest, whenever the Office of Cannabis Management can issue those
licenses; then, the 151.72 uses go away, and now is absorbed into the new legislation.
So, until the Office of Cannabis Management is issuing licenses for all uses, nobody
can sell it.
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July 26, 2023
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What a moratorium would do is put the pause button on it because everybody is
confused about what can and can’t be done. So, all a moratorium does is take what we
have today, which is the one use; anybody else could apply for the same license if they
want to sell it, we would allow that. But we’re not going to allow anybody to expand the
existing use, and we’re certainly not going to allow anybody else to get any kind of a
license because it’s not legal to sell. So, a moratorium just keeps things in check right
now until Council decides what you want to do with more potency and what you want to
do with the rest of the adult uses; where you want to put them, what kind of time, place,
and manner of regulations you want to put over all of them.
She stated that’s the crux of the moratorium information. At the end, she’ll ask
Council what they want to do about that, but she strongly recommends, most cities are
doing it, putting a moratorium in place until either we adopt regulations or until January
1, 2025, whichever comes first. The law allows us to put that moratorium in place until
January 1, 2025; we will have something in place much sooner than that. We just need
to tweak our ordinances. We obviously need to change the licensing once more and put
those regulations in zoning, but we have to zone it in particular areas with some rules
around it as to how you want to regulate it.
Public Possession: Attorney Land stated if someone is walking around with it in a
packet, they can have 2 ounces of the flowers on them, they can have 8 grams of the
concentrate, 800 mg. of an edible product. If you’re at home, you can have 2 pounds of
flowers at home or 8 plants, only of which 4 of them can be mature. So, this is what’s
legal to possess. If you’re in your car, just think of it like the open bottle law; you can’t
have an open container, you can’t be openly using it, you can’t have open product in
your car. If it’s in your trunk, it’s fine. Public Use: This is where the law is very, very
clear. It gives three places where adult use cannabis, recreational marijuana, is allowed:
1) Your private home; 2) On private property with the permission of the owner; 3) If you
have an onsite-consumption license, which nobody can get until January 1, 2025. So,
it’s really just the first two. Exceptions for Smoking: So, if it’s smoked, then you can’t be
in the presence of a minor, somebody under 18, and you can’t violate the Indoor Clean
Air Act. So, if it is a place that is open to the public, you can’t smoke inside, just like
now. Even with permission of the property owner, it is not allowed.
The issue with there only being three places where use is allowed is that there’s no
penalty in the law. So, you can point all you want to all the people walking around
outside who are either using or smoking or doing whatever with recreational marijuana,
but all you can do is wag your finger at them and tell them to knock it off because there
is no penalty in the law, that was intentional. We know that’s intentional because the
legislature also said if cities want to do some enforcement, you can have a petty
misdemeanor if you use it in a public place. That’s why cities are adopting the no use in
public places ordinances that you see right now. The key to get your head around is
what is a public place. Keep in mind Rule #1: It is not allowed outside right now; the
problem is there’s no penalty for it. So, if you want to enforce it in public places, you
have to put an ordinance in place that says it’s prohibited in public places, you have to
define what public places means, and then it’s a petty misdemeanor.
Council Member Olsen stated several years ago, the Parks Department came before
Council with a proposal to prohibit smoking in the parks. At that time, the City Council
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July 26, 2023
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chose to allow smoking in the parks to continue. Now, what’s going through his mind is
we could look at this from a public health perspective, and we could tie it into smoking,
vaping, etc. sort of under one umbrella; he asked if he was off base there.
Attorney Land replied no, not at all. If you look at most smoking policies or
resolutions or ordinances on the books today, they refer specifically to tobacco; so, you
certainly could broaden that and say no smoking or vaping, period, of any substance.
Council Member Olsen stated previously, there was this sense of people should be
free to do what they want to do, but he thinks we’ve opened up a whole new avenue of
conversation with adult use cannabis. To him, it feels like if we are going to consider
limiting or prohibiting that in public spaces, we may want to consider all of it under a
public health umbrella. He thought that would be reasonable, but he wanted to make
sure that we could potentially tie those things together without having to pass a whole
variety of different legislative ordinances. Attorney Land stated she thought it would be
very easy to draft it that way.
Council Member Olsen asked her if other communities in which she worked had that
sort of ordinance on their books. Attorney Land stated most of them have specific
tobacco free ordinances, so they will have to address that and decide if they want to
change that or just have a separate ordinance for each.
Council Member Khambata asked if it was possible to take our existing ordinance, as it
relates to THC edibles and just expand it to include the recreational use marijuana in
terms of zoning and restrictions on how and where it can be sold.
Attorney Land replied yes and no; the way we did our licensing is we put all of our
regulations inside that type of Code. So, we don’t put it in our Zoning Code table as a
prohibited use without any regulation; so, we have to move them. It’s fairly easy if you
decide to go with the same regulations from licensing, as long as there’s time, place,
and manner. We’ll have to kind of parcel through them and make sure that we are being
very specific and intentional about that, and then just move them into the Zoning instead
of in Licensing.
Attorney Land stated the question is how to define public places, as that’s the
terminology the Statute uses. You can prohibit it in public places. So, we can define it as
broadly or as narrowly as you want to. What she has most often seen is public places is
kind of a two-part analysis; it’s places generally accessible by the public, so that means
commercial space. So, a restaurant, an office building that’s open to the public, those
are generally accessible by members of the public. The second part is public property,
as in City property. That includes your streets, your parks, your rights-of-way, your trails,
your sidewalks, those kinds of things. Again, you can be as broad or as narrow as you
want to. Technically, she doesn’t think the law allows it anyway, but how you define it
will then depend on where you can enforce it. So, if somebody is walking somewhere
else, and it’s not in the definition, there’s nothing you can do about that.
Council Member Khambata asked if public property or public places are easier to
enforce from a public safety standpoint.
Attorney Land clarified the broader definition is public places, and then our public
property is included in it. So, she’s saying the property generally open and accessible to
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July 26, 2023
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the public includes public property; we’ll go into what is the definition of public property
separately. She thinks generally open and accessible to the public is one category, kind
of getting into the commercial state, then it’s other properties, and then there’s the
public property. So, that’s where you define whether or not you want to allow it.
Council Member Dennis stated the right place to start with this would be to think about
when you choose to partake in an activity like this, that’s a choice you make, you make
that choice individually. If you’re in the presence of other people, you may have people
there that don’t want to be in the presence of that. So, he thinks that’s the place where
this kind of needs to start, relative to where it would be considered as a use. We’ve had
issues in the past with people having fires in their back yards; neighbors complain about
the smoke as the guy next door has asthma, so he has an issue with it. Constituents
reached out and talked to him about that, but the neighbor did that while on their own
property, and he gets that there’s wafting of the smoke and that type of thing. But if
you’re on your own personal property, that’s one issue to be hashed out between
individuals. When you’re in a place where a parent has kids that are there, or somebody
who finds that smell to be offensive, you’ve got to understand you’re playing to the least
common denominator; since you’re making that free will of choice, and it has a negative
impact on somebody else, you’re in a place where people congregate, wherever it is,
you probably shouldn’t be doing it. He thinks if we start from that position, and use that
as a guiding principle, he thinks we can factor out where these places would be allowed;
that would be the most easy and straightforward way to do it.
Mayor Bailey stated a business in town that doesn’t sell it but is concerned about being
near a business that does, stated as soon as they walk out the door and light it up, that
smell is drifting and going into their store. He asked Attorney Land if she would consider
a mall and their parking lot a public place.
Attorney Land replied yes, as it’s generally open and accessible to the public.
Mayor Bailey stated that’s perfect, because that covers that one person. His second
question is if a homeowner lives next to somebody who is smoking marijuana in their
back yard, or out on their deck, and it’s drifting over and they’ve got their grandkids
over, what options do they have.
Attorney Land replied a private home, inside or outside, the yard or curtilage, is
where it can be. Yard is defined, and curtilage means your driveway, your sidewalks,
places where generally the postman or delivery people can walk up to make deliveries.
What the law also provides for is what’s called the public nuisance remedy. So, it also
can’t be used in front of minors; that’s an easy one to define, too. If you’re in your back
yard, smoking, and there’s a kid in the neighboring back yard, that would not be allowed
under this law, period. However, if you’re the neighbor and you don’t have kids, or your
kids are not present, and it’s still bothering you, there is a penalty for a civil injunction
action. It’s not often, but there is an action for it. You bring an injunction, your penalty is
either your actual damages, whatever that looks like, or a $250 civil penalty. So, yes,
there’s a remedy in the law for private innocents. If you’re in an apartment, and you’re
bothered by it, you can ask the landlord to enforce this action, and then there’s some
kind of enforcement action for you, as the tenant, under landlord-tenant law.
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July 26, 2023
Page 7
Director Koerner stated he was glad she brought that up, because that’s our biggest
concern right now is apartments, and that’s what we’re already hearing.
Attorney Land stated it’s found on Page 146 of the 320-page Bill.
Mayor Bailey asked if we adopt something like this in a couple weeks, if that would
make it a petty misdemeanor.
Attorney Land stated if somebody were to violate in a public place, and we define
public place to include public property and public places, then we could give them a
petty misdemeanor citation. She thinks the fine is still only $200, maximum; she asked
Director Koerner if that was correct, and he replied it’s $300 now.
Mayor Bailey confirmed we have the option to do an absolute moratorium right now,
even though no one can actually open a shop; we could do one action of a moratorium
until the ordinance has been built or January 1, 2025, whichever comes first. He stated
that’s kind of what we initially did with the CBD.
Council Member Olsen asked what benefit is there to a moratorium if the law already
stipulates that they can’t sell.
Attorney Land replied it’s because nobody understands it; nobody understands that
they can’t sell it right now. She’s had numerous email inquiries from random retailers or
usually it’s the manufacturer who’s making all these products. And there’s also nobody
to regulate it; we don’t know what’s in those products. That’s why she wants to stop the
madness and say we’re just going to call it, that there’s a moratorium, so nobody gets to
do anything more than what they’re doing today. We will issue new licenses under our
ordinance, but it’s very restrictive with those Zoning Districts, following our rules, until
we adopt something different. She doesn’t think anybody is going to apply because of
this sort of newness, it’s just a gray area right now. If they did, we would just follow our
path; nobody gets to do anything else, nobody gets to do anything more. Those existing
CBD retailers can’t import products from some other place and try to sell it within their
store. They shouldn’t, but we don’t know what they could really be selling because
there’s nobody checking it. And that’s what we found out about last year’s law, there’s
nobody doing inspections.
Council Member Olsen stated if we do a moratorium, and there’s still nobody
checking, he doesn’t understand the benefit.
Attorney Land stated it sends a message to the public that it’s not allowed here, you
can’t do anything here in the City of Cottage Grove. It’s more just to send a message to
the public that we’re not accepting any applications, nobody gets to do anything else
with adult use marijuana; we’re just calling a timeout until we adopt something.
Mayor Bailey stated and that’s specific to the sale. Attorney Land replied that’s
specific to any of the uses because we have other uses in our ordinance, too, and now
they’ve created all these different names for them.
Mayor Bailey stated if somebody said they wanted to grow their own in their back
yard, they could still do that if we put a moratorium. Because we’re just putting the
moratorium on the sale, so that’s all this is putting the moratorium on.
Attorney Land stated it can be just the sale, or it can be all the uses. Because the
legislature has tried to muddy all of this and created different names for things, she
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July 26, 2023
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thinks it would be easier just to adopt a moratorium on all cannabis uses, on all of it,
other than what’s existing under our current ordinance, which is the under 0.3% THC.
Council Member Olsen stated so, if he’s hearing her correctly, she’s asking us to put
a moratorium on the uses, the things that essentially take effect on August 1.
Attorney Land replied no, that’s a separate ordinance. So, possession and use is a
different ordinance than the business aspect. She’s asking Council to put a moratorium
on the business aspects, not the use.
Council Member Olsen stated so, she’s asking for a moratorium on the business side
of things, which has two elements: Business side is that people can sell it, but they can’t
until January 1, 2025 anyway. The second is the use.
Attorney Land stated use has nothing to do with the moratorium; the use is a
different ordinance, it just says whether or not you want to.
Council Member Olsen stated so all she’s suggesting is a moratorium on something
that already exists, which is they can’t sell it until 2025.
Attorney Land replied they can’t sell it, they can’t make it, they can’t grow it, but
nobody understands that. So, that’s why the League even recommends everybody
adopt a moratorium because it is so chaotic in this world right now.
Council Member Thiede stated he thinks it’s probably better at this point to be more
restrictive than not. Because we can always kind of loosen things up much more than
we can tighten them.
Council Member Olsen stated but it’s not more restrictive, it’s the same thing, it’s
what exists now, it’s just a public information campaign.
Attorney Land stated it’s memorializing.
Mayor Bailey stated it’s basically so if somebody says I’m going to do it, or
somebody calls in and says XYZ Company is doing it, we can send our people out and
say there’s a moratorium, you can’t do this in Cottage Grove. That’s aside from the fact
that the State doesn’t allow you to do it.
Council Member Khambata stated he’s really distressed because it appears to him that
the State just inadvertently created a huge black market for this for the next 18 months.
If he was an elected official at the State level, he would’ve started the licensing process
now, and made it legal to own and sell in two months. It seems like they did this
backwards.
Council Member Olsen stated they don’t even have a regulatory body put together
yet.
Council Member Khambata stated that’s his point; how do you enforce something for
which the organization that’s responsible for enforcement does not yet even exist.
Council Member Olsen stated they realize the cities do that, that’s how they do that.
Council Member Khambata stated the State dumped it on the cities, too. His
foresight is absent a moratorium, or a clear distinction that no further development of
this type of business is allowed, after talking to people who operate a dispensary in
Colorado, what we’re going to see is to be a legal distributor for retail outlets, they’ll
have to grow this stuff six months to a year before it’s ready for sale if they want to set
up an operation. So, what’s going to happen is absent any sort of guidance from the
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July 26, 2023
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City, we’re going to get businesses posturing to be the wholesale provider for these
retail outlets when it becomes available for them to sell. And by that point, we will have
brick and mortar establishments already here for various uses, testing, manufacturing,
or creating whatever additional ancillary products. They’re going to get grandfathered in
to whatever we ultimately legislate later on, absent some clear direction now to say hey,
don’t invest, don’t do anything, because there’s no direction on this, you’re not allowed
to do this. Once we have an ordinance, then you can direct where you’re going to invest
your dollars. Otherwise, you’re going to be really upset, like a specific tobacco shop
owner in Cottage Grove might be with the edibles ordinance.
Council Member Olsen stated all of what Council Member Khambata said is 100%
spot on, but he thinks there already is legislation in place that prohibits businesses from
growing recreational plants.
Council Member Khambata stated that people are going to sign leases on 30,000
square-foot facilities with the expectation that on January 1, 2025, they’re going to be
able to put plants in them, unless we tell them they can’t. Somewhere in the state,
somebody’s going to do that, because that’s how they’re going to create their
production.
Mayor Bailey stated he doesn’t know that we need to get into that level of detail, other
than he would say we have our own business in our Business Park that’s tripling in size
because they saw that this was coming.
Council Member Khambata stated exactly, they’re doing what everyone else is going
to try to do.
Mayor Bailey gave his take on it: He thinks it makes sense for the time being, just from
a clarity standpoint, to put the moratorium in place. Let Attorney Land and our staff talk
with the League of Minnesota Cities, and he’s sure we’re going to hear that from Metro
Cities also.
Council Member Olsen stated he already read the guidance from the League, too. If
we’re talking about a moratorium on something that they’re actually is a moratorium on
because it’s not allowed by law, then it’s clearly just a public relations move. So, it’s
going to need to be written very clearly, it’s going to need to be communicated in a
number of different ways so that all the right people will know. The people who want to
disobey the law are going to disobey the law anyway; they’re just going to do it, will say
they never saw it, never heard it, and didn’t know about it. If we’re just doing this as a
way to send a message, then sending the message has to be the purpose, and we have
to be very diligent about how we do that.
Mayor Bailey stated he concurred with that. He thinks that takes care of the one
piece. The other piece is because as of August 1, anybody can use their own
recreational marijuana, and without an ordinance in place, they can walk anywhere.
Attorney Land stated technically, they can’t, and again, we can’t penalize them.
Mayor Bailey stated he would prefer to see the ordinance in place where it talks
about public places, can’t smoke in our parks, on our trails, on our streets, or in the
right-of-ways.
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July 26, 2023
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Attorney Land stated so, any City-owned property, any rights-of-way, so trails and
sidewalks, and any places generally accessible to the public; for example, the malls or
parking lots.
Council Member Olsen asked if Mayor Bailey was in favor of just doing it all, like
smoking, vaping, adult use, under one umbrella.
Mayor Bailey replied he doesn’t know that he is; he asked our Parks staff if right now
we had any parks where we don’t allow smoking.
Director Dockter replied no.
Mayor Bailey stated so, everybody can smoke at any park or on any trail. Personally
speaking, if somebody wants to walk down the street and have a cigarette, he doesn’t
really care. However, he would not necessarily want them to do that at a park because if
they’re sitting in the stands, next to the kids, or they’re over by the park or even at the
Splash Pad; so, if we don’t have that in place, he would like to see how you would
incorporate that from a smoking standpoint.
Council Member Thiede stated it should be just like we don’t allow alcohol in the
parks, as that’s intoxicating; Director Dockter stated but we do, at all of them.
Attorney Land stated well, maybe we should keep the tobacco smoking products out of
this discussion.
Mayor Bailey stated if we’re going to go back and do this, if we’re looking at this from
a clarity standpoint, if we say you can walk into a park or walk on a trail and you can
smoke and vape, but you can’t walk in a park and a trail and smoke marijuana, to him,
that’s weird.
Council Member Olsen stated he thinks we have to cover all of them, because again,
if people want to violate the law, they’ll find a way. It’s very common for people to hide
their marijuana in a cigar to get around.
Attorney Land stated it’s mostly just to get the message out to the general public,
you can’t smoke marijuana in public. And that’s going to get to most of the people.
Mayor Bailey stated if she wanted to start with this, but he asked the Council to
consider how they want to handle the parks under the circumstances. Again, he can see
somebody who wants to smoke pot, they’re going to be told no or get a petty
misdemeanor, but they’re going to say I can walk in the same park or down a trail and I
can smoke a cigarette or vape. To him, he doesn’t know that that’s different.
Attorney Land stated from a general public standpoint, people would disagree. It’s
completely different, it’s a new use. Tobacco has been around for 100 years.
Council Member Olsen stated but it’s also a public health related conversation, and
Attorney Land agreed. He stated that’s why we have the Indoor Clean Air Act. So, if we
were to approach this from that point of view, we’re incorporating an ordinance as a
result of a public health initiative; we could incorporate vaping, tobacco, and marijuana,
and then we’re covered. And it doesn’t look like we’re singling out one vs. the other, it’s
a public health related issue. That’s one way to look at it.
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July 26, 2023
Page 11
Council Member Khambata asked Director Koerner if he had any insight, if he’d talked
to other chiefs who’d dealt with a rollout like this; what does enforcement of a new use
look like in terms of actual resources.
Director Koerner replied speaking with our Chiefs Association, obviously they’ve had
a lot of conversations with those involved in rollouts in Colorado, and it was disastrous.
When they heard all this, it’s very misunderstood; immediately, there are groups that are
for smoking marijuana, say it’s their right, and they can go smoke in the park. So, it’s the
same when we went to the open carry laws; we had people walking around the Splash
Pad with their handguns, just because they could. They’re challenging us, some have
already, and he can see this being a huge issue at the parks, with people saying they’re
allowed to now. That’s his biggest fear, but he thinks the other states had better rollout
plans than us; as Attorney Land and Council Member Olsen said, there’s no regulatory
board yet. Our chiefs are asking questions, like who’s going to regulate this, are you
going to make us do compliance checks now, etc. None of those questions have been
answered. The public space areas are where he thinks we’re going to get the most
complaints, and he knows it’s going to pick up in the apartments. We’re already having
complaints about rec fires. People have already called about other people; we go to tell
them they can’t do it, and they’re like, oh, it’s going to be legal in a week.
Council Member Khambata stated he thinks of apartments and confined spaces,
from a law enforcement standpoint, he thinks anytime you move people closer together,
you’re more likely to have adverse interactions anyway; he thinks this is going to be a
huge factor in that, in exacerbating what’s already maybe difficult interactions between
close neighbors.
Director Koerner stated the marijuana smoke seems to be much more offensive to
people; Mayor Bailey and Council Member Khambata agreed.
Council Member Khambata stated he knows with his background, enforcing
nonsmoking laws is already almost impossible in apartments. Identifying which
apartment the smoke smell is coming from is difficult; depending on how well built they
are, that smell will travel. He just perceives a lot of problems being dropped in our lap
with this. He likes the idea of a moratorium, at least until we can let the League of
Minnesota Cities or maybe some other cities try some things, see how well they work,
and then kind of shape our ordinance around Best Practices. He thinks on the public
spaces, ultimately people are going to see it as anything else, having a beer or smoking
a cigarette; so, he thinks the marijuana regulation needs to mimic what’s already
socially acceptable with those other things. That’s what a police officer can say in the
park is well, you couldn’t have a beer here, watching your kids play ball, so, why do you
think you can smoke. As long as they’re parallel, he thinks it’s going to be hard for
people to argue with it.
Council Member Thiede stated ultimately, it’s intoxicating secondhand smoke.
Council Member Khambata stated yes, if it’s a health risk or it’s intoxicating, it should
be treated like the other unhealthy intoxicating things that we already regulate.
Attorney Land stated but we don’t regulate those in the parks, that’s the problem.
Council Member Khambata stated he supposed they’d have to get to a certain
degree where we would remove somebody from a park if they were drunk and being
disorderly. Director Koerner stated yes, it’s public intoxication.
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July 26, 2023
Page 12
Council Member Thiede stated that’s why he would agree with being a little more
restrictive to start with.
Attorney Land stated but she doesn’t know if we can; there’s no ability to enforce,
there’s no punishment. If somebody is using adult use marijuana in a park, and we don’t
have any regulations prohibiting it, even though it’s not allowed under the law, all we
can do is ask them to stop.
Mayor Bailey stated but this would give us the penalty. Council Member Thiede
stated so this would take care of that. Attorney Land stated adopting something like this
would at least give us the enforcement tool. Otherwise, it’s a completely empty law.
Council Member Thiede stated he’d be for that. Council Member Khambata asked if
the fine would be a maximum of $200; Director Koerner replied it’s $300. Attorney Land
stated but at least it’s a punishment; at least it is an offense. Without it, it’s just a please.
Council Member Khambata stated he agrees.
Council Member Dennis stated law enforcement doesn’t want this, there are too many
things that are unknown. With public intoxication, there are processes where people can
be checked.
Director Koerner stated it’s much easier with alcohol.
Council Member Dennis agreed, stated there is no accountability, you can’t do
anything with THC other than to know that it’s in the blood, and there’s no way to know
right now what that level is or how recently they had it.
Director Koerner stated it’s different with driving with impairment; we can prove
impairment if they’re not coordinated, etc.
Council Member Dennis stated yes, they’ll have slowed reaction times, we know
that. He looks at this, and what do you do when you have somebody who says well, I’m
going to do this. Let’s say the smell is offensive to somebody else; we’ve all heard the
term contact high, if you’re in close proximity. If you go to certain concerts, you’ll know
what he’s talking about. How do you rectify this? How is it that he can be in a public
space and choose to do something that’s offensive to you; how do we do that? This
whole thing is ill conceived, like Council Member Khambata said. With the legislature,
he’s delved into issues related to liquor laws, testified twice in front of the House
Congress Committee, and the people sitting there in St. Paul don’t have a clue. This is a
rush to judgment on an issue where they threw something out there for people; bread
and circuses is his opinion on what he thinks this whole thing is. We don’t know what
the cause and effect is going to be, we don’t know what the consequences are going to
be. It’s an unfunded mandate, and cities are going to have to pick up the pricing to take
care of all this stuff. He told Director Koerner he didn’t remember the exact terminology,
so asked Director Koerner to please give us a definition of a petty misdemeanor.
Director Koerner stated it has up to a $300 fine, with no jail time.
Council Member Dennis stated and it’s something that would be considered a
violation of law, but it’s not statutory. Attorney Law stated it is statutory, but it’s not a
crime. Council Member Dennis stated it’s not a crime, so.
Director Koerner stated so, we don’t physically go and handcuff them.
Council Member Dennis stated he meant the practicality of prosecuting attorneys
who want to take on these cases.
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July 26, 2023
Page 13
Attorney Land stated a petty misdemeanor is just a payable offense; so, most people
don’t challenge it, they’re not going to go to court and challenge it.
Council Member Dennis stated we’ve had the discussion over the years that it costs
us $7 to chase after every dollar we get back; so, the thing is it’s not practical, it’s not.
Attorney Land stated from what she’s hearing, she’s trying to count where we are
with this.
Council Member Dennis stated well, this whole thing, just put a moratorium on it.
Attorney Land stated but she can’t put a moratorium on the use; she can’t do the
use. She can put it on the business licenses and the businesses.
Council Member Dennis stated that’s a whole other issue, as she said there’s a
business right now that’s selling the product, and the AGE Division, that’s our Minnesota
version of the ATF; there’s an enforcement link. And the stuff at the legislature,
especially when we’re waiting for time to map it out, they don’t have answers yet. If the
AGED is called in, they’re going to enforce what’s on the books. And he can tell you
since he owns a business in that category, we’re restricted by selling certain things that
can only go into a beverage; there’s a booklet that’s posted, put out by the State of
Minnesota that identifies he thinks 14 separate categories and things that can actually
legally be sold inside of a liquor store, that’s a fact.
Attorney Land stated and they added to it under this legislation. Council Member
Dennis stated right, but has it been mapped out, is there a new book? Nobody’s come
to drop off one.
Attorney Land stated there’s no new book, but it’s in this 320-page document.
Council Member Dennis stated sure, but the whole thing is a mess. With public
places, it can’t be in an area; if she doesn’t like it and I’m doing it, and it’s offensive,
then you know what? I’m making a free will choice to do that, no one forced me to do it,
it’s offending this person, so, I should not be doing it.
Attorney Land stated she’s counting Council Member Khambata is in the yes category,
as a public use; Council Member Dennis is a yes. Mayor Bailey says he’d rather not.
Mayor Bailey stated yes. Attorney Land asked if he’s a yes; Mayor Bailey asked a
yes of what, public places? Attorney Land replied yes, for this. Mayor Bailey stated he’s
in favor of the public places, public property, and he’s in favor of the moratorium.
Attorney Land stated okay, he’s in favor.
Mayor Bailey stated he'll have a separate comment when we get through this about
what he’d like to see regarding the parks; he has an idea.
Council Member Thiede stated he’s in favor of both.
Attorney Land stated Council Member Olsen would like to see more; if we’re going to
do marijuana, we should also do smoking and vaping.
Council Member Olsen stated yes, he sees it as a public health conversation; he
also thinks if we’re going to communicate it to the public, a public health conversation is
more palatable than looking like we’re just segmenting one portion of the public.
Frankly, a lot of people out there use.
Attorney Land stated to clarify, we’re just talking smoking and vaping, we’re not talking
about if someone has a handful of gummies, we’re not going to close the marijuana
store.
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July 26, 2023
Page 14
Council Member Olsen stated he would advocate for smoking, vaping, and tobacco,
any tobacco or cannabis. If you’re looking at it from the perspective of is it offensive to
people, he’ll introduce her to his son. If anybody’s smoking, he wants to walk right up to
them and let them know that that’s not okay.
Council Member Dennis confirmed with Council Member Olsen so, it’s also things
that are aerosolized or particulate smoke in the air is what he’s talking about.
Director Koerner stated when you start talking about public places, if you do the smoke
everything, he’s just thinking with the definition; at golf courses, it’s very common for
golfers to be out there with a cigar, cigarettes, and he’s no dummy, he smells marijuana
on the golf course. When we start talking about clearing out parks, he just wants to
make sure we consider that, too.
Attorney Land stated that’s kind of a side conversation; she’s hearing four for sure
for at least cannabis, prohibiting that, and one advocate for all tobacco and cannabis.
Council Member Olsen stated regarding the moratorium idea, again he sees it as
purely a public relations move; he doesn’t know if it’s necessary or not. If it’s something
that we think we need to do to help gain the attention of the public with respect to what’s
going to happen from a sales perspective, so be it. The law doesn’t allow them to sell
anything other than the gummies right now until 2025, either way. If people don’t know
that, then he guesses the State hasn’t done a good enough job of communicating that.
So, you’re asking us, as a City, if we should be communicating that.
Attorney Land stated part of the reason for the moratorium, he’s right, it’s a public
relations campaign; part of it is that the State doesn’t have the ability to enforce even
that because all it says is if anybody violates any of these things, and you find them
selling, report it to the Department of Health. They’re just going to put it in a column and
say, oh, yeah, somebody was selling it; they’ll put it on a spreadsheet. But they don’t
have the ability to do anything either. So, at least our moratorium will give us an
enforcement tool; because we can use a criminal citation, you’re violating our
ordinance. We can do something with this.
Council Member Khambata asked with a criminal citation, in practice, are petty
misdemeanor citations complaint driven. So, somebody gets warned not to do it, and
then they do it, then they’ll get the ticket.
Director Koerner stated if you’re talking about smoking in the park, that would be
more complaint driven. Our officers are not going to be driving through parks to do
random checks.
Council Member Khambata stated it’s the same thing as drinking in public, or
smoking a cigar on a golf course probably isn’t a problem, unless you’re blowing it in
somebody’s face. So, there’s a larger issue; like, if you’re not bothering anyone, then
there’s nothing to report, generally speaking.
Mayor Bailey stated that’s where he gets concerned. We all have employees and we
don’t allow them to smoke in the stores, but they’ll go stand out in front of the store or
behind the store. If we say, you can’t smoke or vape in a public place, then that’s a
whole other can of worms that he doesn’t want to get into. That’s why he has a concern
about making it all tobacco products, marijuana, and vaping products because that
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July 26, 2023
Page 15
would also include all of our restaurants who have patios where people are able to step
outside and have a cigarette or something; they will have a challenge.
Council Member Olsen asked if a restaurant is a public space.
Attorney Land replied yes, it’s open and accessible to the public. The only places it
would not be would be a private club; sometimes a smoking lounge, where you have to
be a member only, they don’t have to comply with the Clean Indoor Air Act because
they’re private, they’re not open and accessible to the public. If somehow the smart
people who love this cannabis stuff can figure out a way to have a private club and get
an on-sale, on-site consumption license from the State, it's possible they could do it in
kind of a commercial setting.
Council Member Olsen stated so the point of prohibiting cannabis use in public
spaces is because it smells bad; Attorney Land stated she thought generally the public
would say it’s offensive.
Council Member Olsen stated but wouldn’t the public also say smoking is offensive. I
know plenty of people who don’t like it; personally speaking, as a parent, he never
wanted his kids to be around smoking or vaping, so he thinks they’re the same, but he
doesn’t know, it’s personal preference maybe.
Mayor Bailey stated that is part of it, but some of it is precedence that’s been handed
down for many, many years; now, this is a whole new process here with cannabis.
Council Member Thiede asked if we needed to vote tonight; Attorney Land replied
no, she feels she has enough direction to prepare the moratorium and the public
prohibition at public places. This will not come before you until the second meeting in
August because we have to hold a public hearing on the moratorium. Under this new
legislation, they said if you’re going to adopt a moratorium, you have to hold a public
hearing.
Council Member Olsen asked what is the date of that meeting; Administrator Levitt
replied it’s August 16.
Council Member Khambata asked about the penalty aspects of the petty misdemeanor.
To Council Member Dennis’ point, as somebody who wants to be fiscally responsible,
he doesn’t think it’s a practical expense of $7 to chase $1. Are there alternative forms of
restitution for petty misdemeanors or do you just pay your penalty; what happens if you
don’t pay your penalty. Can they do five hours of community service, or what
alternatives are there that might be more available than to collect a fine; if they’re not
going to pay it, at what point are we going to stop chasing after it.
Attorney Land replied we don’t chase it, as petty misdemeanors are not monitored by
the City Attorney or the prosecuting attorney. They solely are the responsibility of the
courts. So, if somebody doesn’t pay it, there are other mechanisms they have to do
revenue recapture. They can also suspend their driver's license for failure to pay fines.
So, people in the end will end up paying it; it may take longer, but it’s not going to be on
the City’s dime. The only dime is going to be peace officers’ time to write that ticket, and
then it’s really out of our hands unless they challenge it and want a court trial; then it’s
like a two-hour minimum, as we have to pay them overtime to sit in court and testify.
Director Koerner stated it’s three hours now. Attorney Land stated so, we don’t get
much out of the ticket, but at least we don’t have to really spend a lot of money.
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July 26, 2023
Page 16
Council Member Thiede stated at least it has some penalty. Mayor Bailey agreed,
and stated because if we don’t do anything, then why even have it. Council Member
Khambata stated okay, that’s fair.
Mayor Bailey stated maybe one thing for staff, Director Dockter, or maybe it should go
to the Parks Commission, to talk about smoking and alcohol in our parks. He was
surprised when he heard we can have alcohol in all of our parks; he knew that Lamar
was one. Council Member Thiede stated that was specified in the ordinance that they
couldn’t have it at Lamar during adult softball; so, any other time, if there was not adult
softball, you could drink at Lamar.
Mayor Bailey thought it might be good for the Parks Commission to take up the
thought process about smoking, vaping, and allowances for, or how we would allow,
alcohol in the park; maybe it’s by ordinance, maybe it’s by permitting for festivals or
something like that, and maybe we should just leave it alone. He doesn’t know.
Council Member Olsen asked what if we came forward with no smoking in the parks;
he just remembers Derrick was on the Council at the time. Director Dockter stated yes,
he had a big advocate group that was going around to all the cities in the State to have
tobacco-free parks.
Mayor Bailey stated he’d like the Parks Commission to just take that issue, think
about it, hash it out, and see if it’s something that we want to do. Their recommendation
can come back to the Council, and maybe we can have a workshop or something to
discuss how we’d want to handle it within the parks. He thought that might help Council
Member Olsen with what he’s saying about just encapsulating a process within the
parks.
Director Koerner stated we can look back at Public Safety, too; we do those park
checks, and he can’t even remember the last time there was an issue. We can check
our data, but most alcohol issues are with underage kids in the parking lot at 2:00 a.m.
He can pull up all the numbers for Director Dockter.
Mayor Bailey said if they deem it necessary and appropriate for this to go before the
Public Services Commission, he’s fine with that, too. So, if there is a park where you’re
picking up cigarette butts in the parks because they’re all over the place, or broken beer
bottles, etc., that might be something that incorporates the two groups together.
Director Dockter stated it’s pretty rare we have any issues.
Mayor Bailey replied if there isn’t an issue, we don’t have to make it an issue. At the
same time, it would be easier to say smoking and vaping, in his opinion, on one.
Attorney Land stated the last public service message is we know this becomes legal
next Tuesday; so, City employees, don’t be high at work. That’s the rule, it’s just the
rule. Everybody laughed, and she thanked everybody for their time.
B. 2024 Budget Workshop
Staff Recommendation: Provide staff with feedback and direction
regarding the 2024 Budget.
Ryan Burfeind, Public Works Director, stated for the last several months, the Public
Works team has spent a lot of time putting this budget together for Council to consider
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July 26, 2023
Page 17
tonight. He’ll go through our General Budget first, then will talk about Equipment
Replacement before we discuss Parks.
Public Works Streets Division
Includes Street Signs, Snowplowing, Stormwater, this is everything that Gary oversees.
Accomplishments: He highlighted the amount of plowing that we did this year, the third
highest snowfall on record at the airport; at the Chanhassen Weather Service it was an
all-time record. The airport just got a little bit more rain than snow this winter, over 100
inches there; so, it was a huge winter for us. He thinks they did a great job of dealing
with the salt; we had to put down a lot because we had a lot of snow, but for having
almost two winters in one, how we handled that he thought was impressive. We plowed
56 times, which is basically double a normal year. 2024 Goals: Implementing the 14th
snowplow route. We’re finally going to get our two new plow trucks, authorized and
previously discussed in July 2021.
Mayor Bailey asked if we had the trucks now; Director Burfeind replied we have one
of the chassis, the other chassis is still getting the trailer brake controller on, but the
equipment is at Aspen already. We should have those all ready by snowplow time.
To make the 14th plow route, though, was just because prices went up so
dramatically, we basically got two plow trucks for what we thought three would have
cost; that 14th plow truck is one that we’re keeping that would have been sold. So, we’ll
only use it for plowing, and we’ll park it when we’re not plowing because it’s 17 years
old, but that’s how we’re getting the 14th plow route. It was almost $700K for two plow
trucks; there are no changes, we’re buying the same truck, we’re not adding anything or
doing anything differently. It’s just a very costly price increase there. He thought Council
had authorized that change last May.
Looking at our division budgets, for the items that we control, we have a general 3%
increase, but we had the Internal Service Funds, maintenance, fuel, and a little bit of IT
costs, but maintenance and fuel costs are up pretty significantly. So, that’s the increase
that’s proposed for 2024 into 2025.
Public Works Administration
Accomplishments: A major accomplishment, also with Director Dockter’s teams, too,
was doing a leadership course with Ethical Leaders in Action; they came in for all the
Public Works and Parks maintenance supervisory staffs. We had two sessions, one for
the leads and foremen, one for the superintendents, him, and Director Dockter. It was
really good; there were four different sessions, it wasn’t very extreme or intense. It was
just a way to get our groups together and hash out issues we might have, issues we
don’t know we have, how to improve ourselves, and how to improve the whole
organization. We just wrapped that up here in June. That was a great program that we
put together. 2024 Goals: A new GIS-based online work order system. It’s been a long
time coming; there’s a challenge of getting the right system, as some we looked at had
great features, but we need one that would allow us to reassign work orders within the
divisions. There’s one we’re starting to look at now that could be a good option for that;
we hope to implement that in 2024.
Engineering
Accomplishments: Beginning construction of the Low Zone Water Treatment Plant and
the East Point Douglas and Jamaica projects; two very long time coming projects. The
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July 26, 2023
Page 18
Low Zone Water Treatment Plant is going to be on the Council agenda next week for
the Bid Award. We just found out today that the co-trustees kind of gave the final
blessing of the grant agreement, etc., so they’re on board with that and the costs that
we didn’t see. It was updated last week that those costs came in higher than we
anticipated, but we had two very close bids, really what this plant costs to build; it’s the
first plant of its kind to be built in the Midwest. So, that part is fully funded by the co-
trustees, and they’re on board with that.
Council Member Thiede asked what makes it so different or unique.
Director Burfeind replied just what we’re doing. It’s iron manganese removal,
pressurized, which many times is gravity, and then it’s the first of this size for a PFAS
treatment plant. We have our smaller ones, Oakdale has a smaller one; unique to our
system, we have to bring all the water back to it, and we’re going to have what we call
clear wells underneath it, and they have to pump back out to our system. So, it’s just a
lot more complicated than any one that we’ve built; certainly, because ours are
temporary, but even the Oakdale plant and the Woodbury plant are just very different
and a smaller scale. So, we kind of put all of that together into one bundle; it’s just
unique to our area.
Council Member Thiede asked how does that extra, beyond what we estimate, affect
the award from 3M, because this is being paid for by 3M. Director Burfeind replied it is,
yes, and all of it is paid for by that 3M Settlement. They had $320M in capital funding for
the entire East Metro, and then they had $180M in contingency. So, we talked a lot
about this, that their Plan was done three years ago, and those numbers are out of date.
He thinks the State knew that, so, they actually earmarked more than 50% in
contingency, so they saw that coming, and they’re using that contingency bucket.
Council Member Thiede stated it doesn’t necessarily affect future operating costs.
Director Burfeind replied no.
Council Member Thiede asked if it had any affect on taxes for individuals. Director
Burfeind replied no; that contingency was specifically earmarked for capital costs and
the fact that a city like Woodbury might be four years out from building a plant. So, think
of the cost increase in the next four years.
Council Member Khambata said he’s had this thought many times, but he’s not sure if
he ever actually asked him; when you backflush those filters, what do you do with the
PFAS chemicals after they’ve been removed from the water. Do we stockpile them and
somebody comes and picks them up, do they get incinerated, or do we send them back
to 3M and say thank you.
Director Burfeind stated that’s a good question because he has to sign off on the
chain of custody form, to make sure it’s done properly. One of our suppliers, Evoqua,
they have a licensed and permitted incineration facility out in Philadelphia that it gets
sent to; and they get burned at 3000 degrees Fahrenheit, and it completely breaks
down the PFAS compound down back to the carbon and hydrogen and whatever else is
in it. That’s all regulated and inspected and controlled through the State and the Federal
government.
Council Member Khambata asked if that’s also a cost that we budget for in the
operating expenses. Director Burfeind replied it is an operating expense, fully paid for
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July 26, 2023
Page 19
by the State; so, that’s not a cost that we see at this point. In the current plan, at least
for the next 20 years, they anticipate that. Even after the 20 years, the State is still
confident that the 3M Consent Order does apply to any well that’s over the State limit;
so, even after 20 years, that’s been the State’s direction that that will still be paid for.
2024 Goals: Finish East Point Douglas and Jamaica project. Also, continue to really
aggressively go after funding for all the different larger projects in town, like 100th
Street.
General Fund Divisions
Engineering: Have similar increases, you can see in 2022 to 2023, that’s with the
fulltime City Engineer was authorized for this year, so that was the main increase for
Engineering. One thing on the bottom, based on our project workload and Engineering
revenues that come from those projects, from developments and public projects,
projects paid for by the State, that’s what we’re looking at for Engineering Revenue; so,
we continue to have no issue with fully funding that Engineering Division and then
some. At the end of the year, that can go back through the Fund Balance Policy.
Stormwater Utility Fund: You can see revenues and expenses here, we’re looking at the
same 3% increases in this fund. We do have a 3% rate increase, we did a five-year
Stormwater Utility Fund rate study two years ago, so, we’re continuing to follow that 3%
rate increase. That’s really a bare minimum because a lot of that fund is labor, and
we’re seeing 3% increases on the union contract, so we have to keep pace with that
and our equipment and expenses. In 2022, it looks like the expenses far outweigh the
revenues, so we had a project in there, the Goodview Avenue Ravine Stabilization; that
was actually half funded by a Watershed Grant. We also have a final closeout of the
East Point Douglas and County 19 roundabout, just making the MSA Fund whole, as
about $400K of that was Stormwater Utility Expenses. So, that work was actually done
a couple years earlier; so, it wasn’t necessarily a true expense last year, but that’s when
it hit the fund. Public Works Utilities: For everything that Rick has under his envelope,
we also have the Low Zone Plant here because that was a huge team effort between
Engineering and Utilities. He thought it was important to really highlight that for both, as
it was a huge team effort to get that done. The other one is adding temporary treatment
at Wells 2 and 7; we talked about that last year, he thought about this time, probably at
the CIP. That’s when Council authorized us to really get going on the purchase of those
tanks, ahead of time, and that’s what made the difference. We were able to get those
tanks delivered in May and get the plants operational in June, which was our goal and
our intent, and we met that. With the drought we have again this year, we’d be in a
tough spot if we did not have Wells 2 and 7 with treatment. So, that was a massive
undertaking, and those are our 4th and 5th Interim Treatment Plants. Unfortunately, with
the State looking to go back to almost 0; so, PFOA is one of the main things in our
water, and they’re looking at coming out with a new regulation this winter, which is 2
parts per trillion. Right now, it’s at 27 or 35 parts per trillion limit; so, basically 0. We’re
going to have to go back to the well and the State, literally and figuratively, and look at
more temporary treatment. Because when they go to 0, we need more treatment plants;
it won’t be us, it’s going to be cities across, and not just cities in the East Metro, this
includes those not in the Settlement area that are going to be very heavily impacted by
this new regulation this winter. So, he’s talked about that before, but we know that’s
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July 26, 2023
Page 20
coming; the State says Quarter 4 of 2023, that’s the most they’ll give us for a date. But
we’re good; with the 5 temporary treatment plants, we have no issue meeting all our
demands all the way through next summer again. We’re just going to come up with a
new game plan and likely continue to do more temporary treatments until those
permanent treatment plants are built.
Administrator Levitt asked Director Burfeind to touch on the SCADA system.
Director Burfeind stated with the 2024 Goals, in the bid for the Low Zone Treatment
Plant was a complete overhaul of our SCADA system. That runs our entire water
system and our sewer lift stations, that’s what failed in August of last year. We have 20
remote sites from wells, water towers, booster stations; there’s a main computer at each
one, and we use a radio communication method right now. So, we’ve had an aging
system, and asked Rick if that was built in the 2000s; Rick replied it started in 2004 and
was upgraded in 2011. Director Burfeind stated it was definitely aging infrastructure
there. Rick’s team has been monitoring this, and Director Burfeind received a list today
from Rick’s lead foreman of communication fails, and issues that we’re continuing to
have, that our staff has to respond to, which is fine. Now, we have a new completely
separate water pressure gauge at the West Draw tower, so he doesn’t want Council to
think we’re not prepared; we’ve completely buttoned up what happened last year, but
we need a new SCADA system. Our estimate was about $950K, and it came in at
$895K on that bid; so, we’re strongly recommending awarding that and getting that
whole new system. Cyber security is huge; in the days that we live in, water utilities are
massive targets. So, the State actually has Executive Order 2022-20 for water utilities
and all the work we have to do to be compliant for cyber security. We meet that today,
but this is a huge step into being even several steps above that. We want to be ahead
of the game when it comes to cyber security, so that’s a big part of it. Our IT
Department has been a big part of that effort. Next week we have the Bid Award, and
you’ll see we’re recommending award of that; that is a City cost because that’s
upgrading our sites. He stated the work at the Low Zone treatment plant, that’s in the
actually Plan, but this Alternate was the City cost to upgrade all of our existing sites with
new PLCs. We’re going to go to a cellular communication; it’s not standard, it’s a
different dedicated cellular communication method, because the radios just don’t work
like they used to, there’s just too much interference. We need to go to that cellular
method, which is kind of a new gold standard, and that’s probably the most important
thing we do is keeping the tap on; this is a key part of that, so.
Council Member Thiede asked how many separate locations do we have where you
have those.
Director Burfeind replied we have 12 wells and 2 boosters, so, there’s 22 locations;
so, it’s a PLC computer and communication on every single one, and that’s also the
master system so, it’s very important. The way it works is we already have a System
Integration Specialist in control; that’s a new one that we’ve actually hired after some of
the security issues we previously had. So, they’re actually the ones that do the work;
they’re someone we’ve already vetted and required to do the work. So, when you see it,
it's the same bill for both contractors because they’re required to use the company that
we vetted and approved. He asked if there were any questions on the SCADA system.
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July 26, 2023
Page 21
Mayor Bailey stated he said the number came in under the original estimate; he
asked if they’re still looking at purchasing that next year or is it part of this year.
Director Burfeind replied we would start the work this year if we award that project;
we want to get that going. It’s going to be a long process, so he put it as a 2024 Goal,
because that’s when we really want it to be wrapped up. Our goal is to award that bid
next week, with the Low Zone Plant, and we’ll get that moving within several weeks.
Water Utilities: We just had the sewer and water utility rate study last year, with a 3%
rate increase proposed. One thing that is up there is expenses do not include
depreciation of the equipment; that’s kind of been a standard with these budget
presentations. Brenda Malinowski, Finance Director, stated that’s how we presented the
budgets in the past. As you recall, when KDV comes in and does the audit, they will be
showing before depreciation and after depreciation, so that’s how it’s budgeted.
Director Burfeind stated in here we have a service body truck for replacement in
2024, and that’s in the Equipment Replacement memo; that’s one of the two
workhorses of Rick’s crew. He has thin staff, with two service body trucks: They have
the crane on it for pulling all the lift station equipment out; they have a manhole lifter on
the front because we’re not lifting 80-pound manhole covers off anymore, as that’s not a
safe way to do business in terms of back injuries. Also, with all of the equipment, that’s
a pickup you can get in, and you can respond to emergencies because all of the
equipment is in that service body and all the toolboxes. It’s a very important part of the
fleet. As that’s in the Equipment Replacement, we can talk more about that later.
Sewer Utility: This one has a 5% rate increases proposed, per year, in that rate study,
and that’s really because of the Met Council. We saw a better, lower increase in 2024,
under 4%, but between 2022 and 2023, we had an over 30% increase in the Met
Council fees. That fee is not a small part; if you look at the total fund expenses of
$3.5M, that fee is $2.7M, so that fee is most of that fund. Those major rate increases for
two years hit it really hard, and we didn’t do 20% rate increases to make up for that; we
used the fund balance to not hit the residents as hard, and we’re trying to slowly make
that up over time because we also need to have a decent fund balance to deal with
issues and big projects in the future. Streetlight Fund: We have 8% increases proposed,
again for 2024 and 2025; those are larger, but that’s what we had in 2023. This is really
two things: One is utility cost, a big part of that fund is paying Xcel Energy, the electric
bills, and Xcel Energy rates have increased 21% in three years, so that is just a cost we
bear. Obviously, any new lights are going in as LED, which is a good thing, but existing
high pressure sodium lights still use more power. He’ll probably talk more in the future,
as the high pressure sodium equipment is getting harder and harder to get, so we have
to kind of deal with the LEDs. We know that we don’t have the funds for a whole set of
LED conversions. Really, even though the bulbs are more efficient, they really don’t
have the payback like maybe other LED fixtures do. High pressure sodiums are already
very efficient, they’re not like a normal old incandescent bulb in the house. So, those are
just things that we’re dealing with, but those replacement costs are increasing, so that’s
playing into that 8% rate increase. Streetlights aren’t something we can ignore; when a
streetlight is out, the streetlight is out, and it’s got to be replaced. It’s not something we
can just wait on for two months because we have a low fund balance. That’s a visible
thing in the public that just needs to be replaced, and we have over 4,000 streetlights;
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July 26, 2023
Page 22
so, it’s a massive workload for our one person who deals with it. Traffic signals are not
in these costs; when we have new traffic signals proposed, those are not in here.
Fleet and Facilities: Busy is the only word he can use; we completed over 1,200 work
orders in Fleet and 480 in Building Maintenance. When he talks about Fleet
maintenance costs, they are high; this year hit us really hard. Plowing is probably one of
the most expensive things we do, and it’s the hardest work we do on our equipment. We
had two winters in one, double the snow average and with that came double the
breakdowns. It’s not misuse, it’s not using the equipment wrong, it’s just the nature of
the beast. When we had that April snowstorm, that stuff was so heavy it ripped two
wings off of our plows; the physical metal bar that holds it on just tore in half. The wear
and tear and abuse that we get on this equipment is really the hardest thing we deal
with; so, we saw that on Fleet maintenance for this year. 2024 Goals: Maybe hitting on
the CIP, Adam started working on a 10-year CIP, more specific for building
maintenance; we haven’t had that in the past, looking at when roofs should be replaced,
HVAC replacement, carpet, and some of the big-ticket items. So, we’ve made a good
first step in that and will continue to work on that in 2024. Replacement Facilities: We’ve
talked a lot about this fund in the past few years, just the cost and trying to make that
Internal Service Fund correct; we’re slowly getting there with the revenue and expenses
for future years, $3.25 is what Director Malinowski has in there for 2024 for fuel, and
$115 per hour Fleet maintenance. When compared to Carlson Auto, today it’s $140-
$165 per hour, so, we’re still well below the general market rate for mechanic work.
Equipment Replacement
Director Burfeind stated just looking ahead, he wanted to touch first on what was in the
FMP for the requests going forward and see those years that vary year by year. One
thing we really want to try to do is have consistency on that. We talked a lot about
replacement cycles, and we discussed what’s the best way to do things. We have 242
pieces of equipment, and he didn’t think we talked about that enough. We talked about
replacements, but we actually printed out the list, which is in front of you. Our rolling
stock is 242 pieces of equipment, which is a lot to manage. When you think about trying
to replace things, when we need to on a cycle, part of that is we don’t want to come up
with $2.5M in replacement in one year. We want to try to balance that out over time.
Another thing he wanted to touch on was just the price increases; on the right, a ¾-
ton pickup in 2020, a State contract, was $31K; in 2022, it was $48K, and that’s the
exact same piece of equipment. That’s not without a plow or specialty equipment, that is
the State contract price for a ¾-ton truck. That service body truck that we were looking
at in 2020 was $103K, in 2022, $144K.
Council Member Thiede stated we know things got inflated in 2021; we’ve seen with
some of the equipment that we’ve seen prices kind of level or stay steady a little bit
more. Do you expect that? Director Burfeind replied at some point it has to, we can’t
have 25% per year price increases; we still are budgeting a little higher price increase
for 2023, just because that’s what we’re seeing. We don’t know what the 2023 price is
going to be at on these ¾-ton trucks, but it’s going to be more than $48K; he’ll touch on
that a little later. Because there’s a lot of equipment that Council authorized last year
that we haven’t bought because the contracts opened and closed, and they would give
the City one pickup when we needed seven. At some point, we hope it will all level out,
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July 26, 2023
Page 23
but he doesn’t have that answer. 2023 Equipment: Three ¾-ton pickups still need to be
purchased, those are for Parks. The GMC contract opened, so we’re hoping to get into
that one this year. Typically, we try to go with Ford, to have a consistent make of
equipment so it’s easier to work on; but we couldn’t risk getting on the Ford contract, it
wasn’t open yet, and we needed to get what we could get when we could. We had the
two one-ton trucks that Council authorized last year, and that has not been open yet for
us to actually order. As soon as that is, we will be on that. We have 800 megahertz
radios for Fire and the sand trap rake for Parks. And then, not in terms of the
Equipment Replacement Fund but for water, there’s the two ¾-ton trucks that were
authorized last year that we also could not get and then ½-ton pickup for Stormwater.
One thing we’re looking at is me and Adam just met with the State Department of
Administration, their Fleet Services; they actually have a leasing program for more
standard vehicles, not for specialty equipment but for cars, SUVs, and a ¾-ton pickup.
We’re actually going to look into that; we might pilot it with that ½-ton pickup. Initially,
the rates looked pretty good, and also all the maintenance costs are covered. So, it’s a
five-year lease with an option to extend it to six if you haven’t hit the mileage yet; if you
lose a transmission in year five, that transmission is covered. Our mechanics would still
do all the work, then the State pays for it. So, it doesn’t affect our workflow, we’re not
going to have to layoff our mechanics because we’re sending everything out; our
mechanics do the work, and it’s fully paid for through that lease. We want to really use
that if we can, it’s a good option to keep newer equipment in the fleet; then because that
equipment cost is paid for, you’re really just paying the monthly lease, it’s a known cost.
There’s no more fluctuation because you have random breakdowns that we weren’t
anticipating. We want to do that with the ½-ton pickup, and he thinks if we want to do
more of that in the future, we’ll bring that back to the Council to really show you the
numbers and if it pays itself off over time.
Council Member Thiede stated he’d be interested in actually seeing the software.
Does it have a variable that allows you to record utilization, like there’s 24 hours in a
day, this vehicle gets used 16 of those hours, this vehicle may get used 1 or 2 hours,
just so that you have different utilization. Obviously, that affects this and that’s why
there’s something in here that was bought in 1997 and is still being used, probably
because its got a lower utilization. It would be interesting just to kind of see that. The
other thing is the impact of it being down; if the probability of it going down, if the
utilization is higher, obviously then that has more of an effect on actually going down. It
would just be interesting to see if that’s something else that you might be able to track in
the maintenance software.
Director Burfeind stated with utilization, most of the vehicles are mileage based; so,
we know the miles used. Some are hour based, some of the specialty ones, like a
sweeper or mowers. Some are hours, but most are mileage, which is really deceiving
because it’s work; plowing 10 miles is not like driving 10 miles up to Woodbury. It’s just
100 times the damage on a vehicle. So, that’s where mileage can be very deceiving
because all of our equipment, except for maybe certain administration vehicles, are
working; it’s a different life that they have than a normal passenger vehicle. In terms of
down time, you’re right; different pieces of equipment have different urgency. The vac
truck, which is very old, is not in the budget for next year, it’s something he’ll talk about
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July 26, 2023
Page 24
for 2025. But when we have it, we need it; last year, we had a big backup on Hadley
Avenue and ours was broken down, and Woodbury came down and kind of saved us
that day through the sharing that we do of equipment. Last night, we had a very big,
impactful scheduled watermain repair down on East Point Douglas and Jamaica that we
had to do; it wasn’t part of the project. We needed the vac truck for that, and yesterday
the vac truck went down while we were doing the work. Thank goodness, Newport was
available to come. So, some of that equipment that you need when you need it, you
need it. And it’s hard to put a price on plowing; we have 13 routes, and if he has 11
trucks running, he’s pretty happy just because we’re always going to break them down.
Council Member Thiede asked if they actually recorded that down time at all.
Director Burfeind stated in a specific event, we’d have to go back and look. We know
how many drivers we have on, but it might be because drivers aren’t available. It’s
something we could track.
Council Member Khambata asked what he’d do to track down time for the number of
service requests; is it just like calendar days.
Gary replied he does that on his daily snow reports. This past winter, he bet there
were two-or-three times where we had a truck burning. The first thing is if we’re short of
people, they go in the big trucks so they’re not in the cul-de-sac routes. We had to use
loaders in the big routes; so, the big trucks are the hardest to keep going when they’re
that old. So, very few times in the past three years have we had a full fleet of big trucks.
Director Burfeind stated he’d like to get to the point where we can keep an old truck
that has a backup; unfortunately, both of ours right now are to keep. At some point in
the future replacement, he would like to keep one of the trucks that can be physically a
backup because we always have a truck down.
In terms of this, he also wanted to mention is the pickups we estimate at $55K; all of
those do require plows. From our purchasing policy now, we have to come back to
Council to authorize if it comes in higher; so, once that Ford purchasing State contract
opens up, we may be back before you to authorize some additional funds to buy those
specific pieces of equipment. We know we need to balance that out because we have a
fund balance that Director Malinowski wants us to maintain, and that’s where we’re
hoping that maybe to lease or some other options can help balance that out. But that’s
likely going to be a Council item in the future, just at a regular meeting.
For equipment replacement in 2022, he ran through the equipment list first; all of this
information is in Adam’s memo that was provided in the packet. For Parks, we have two
trailers, two mowers, and a utility vehicle with a sprayer. For Public Safety, there’s two
police Admin vehicles, six police squads, the Fire Tender, and the Fire radios. For Utility
Funds, we have the pickup truck with the service body, mentioned earlier, and another
one is our older Elgin street sweeper, which is 26 years old; we were actually able to
work with the South Washington Watershed District to get a grant to pay for half of that
new sweeper, just as a replacement. This is a big deal as we usually only look to have
grants when we’re adding a sweeper to our fleet, but we’re going to make some
commitments to do a little bit more sweeping at key times of the year to make sure
we’re keeping stuff out of the stormwater system. They’re willing to pay for half of that
$306K sweeper, which would be huge for us, as then we would have two sweepers
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July 26, 2023
Page 25
going. You can see in the upper right where those funding sources come from for the
breakdown of total Equipment Replacement cost.
For new equipment, there’s only one this year; we call it a Utility Vehicle, it’s our
sidewalk machine. In the memo, this is more based on the level of service. We’ve
increased our sidewalk and trail length by 50% in the past six years without really
adding a route. We saw that this year, as it probably takes at least a solid 12 hours on a
normal snowstorm to clean our sidewalks. Unfortunately, we’re really get complaints
about that; it’s nothing that we’re doing wrong, it’s just they can only drive so fast, they
have a blower on there, and they can’t turn the speed up because then they’re going to
damage the equipment. This machine is very costly because it has to have a lot of
power, and they have to fit on a five-foot-wide sidewalk; so, they’re very unique. To buy
a new one is over $200K, so we’re looking at a lease rate of $40K. We’re really trying to
balance that out, and not hit the fund so heavy with one immediate cost of $200K.
With just trying to garner data and statistics on what we’re doing with the 242 pieces
of equipment we have, which grows when we add new pieces of equipment, a question
is what is the age of that stock, the average age. Adam went back and pulled those
numbers: Since 2020, we’ve gone from just under 9.4 years of an average age to just
under 10.4. So, we have increased the age of our fleet by about a year in a three-year
timeframe. He doesn’t know what the correct average age should be, but it is
increasing. We’re asking for 15 pieces of equipment to be replaced out of 242, so he
thought that was a fair ask, it’s important, and we feel strongly about all of the pieces
that we’ve asked for this year.
Fleet Repairs: This is outside repairs and parts, so it’s not our internal time. You can
see it really jumped up in the past two years; in 2022, a lot of big snow fell, so it kind of
balances out. In 2023, that’s a projection for year end, that’s not what we spent to date
only halfway through the year, but that’s the projection. So, we’re seeing very high
maintenance costs, and this isn’t someone getting into an accident with a car; these are
things that need to be repaired. He and Adam looked at the list; they’re just huge ticket
items, like transmissions on pieces of equipment, $17K repairs, sweeper repairs are
$18K. He attributes a lot of that to the big winter.
Council Member Thiede asked how much of that is actually material cost vs.
frequency, more pieces of equipment having to be serviced.
Director Burfeind replied for this year, to date, we were more like $500K, and he
believes this was less in parts; he thought it was about $300K in outsourcing and $200K
in parts.
Council Member Thiede said that would be interesting because obviously what you
have to pay for material costs, that’s more of a market type deal. If it’s actually the
frequency of repair of some of that 242 pieces of equipment, that could be correlated to
your graph of the age of your equipment, and whether that’s increasing at the same rate
and that’s the cause.
Mayor Bailey stated frankly, looking at the last slide where it showed the average
age of our equipment is increasing, you can obviously see the scale.
Council Member Thiede stated yes, but part of this is the current cost and part of it is
materials; so, it could be that the material costs are rising really fast and it may not be
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July 26, 2023
Page 26
the incident number of repairs are increasing. He believes the number of repairs
probably are increasing, but it would be interesting to see how that correlates.
Director Burfeind stated just based on the sheer amount of outsourcing that we’ve
had to utilize this year and last year, there are more repairs happening because it’s
more than our staff has been able to handle.
Council Member Khambata asked with that outsourcing, are most of the outsourced
repairs due to special pieces of equipment or special tools that we don’t have, or is it
our fleet mechanics just don’t have the time for it. Is there an opportunity to reduce
some of the potential expense for outside repairs if we were to bring on another
mechanic; so, is this a staffing issue or is it just the equipment that needs to be
outsourced is outsourced because it’s special.
Director Burfeind replied it’s all of the above. Some of it is warranty stuff, which isn’t
done here because that’s got no cost. A lot of this special equipment, like actually
working on a fire engine, not just the motor or something, that we’re not doing. Certain
pieces of equipment we can’t work on, so, that really doesn’t change. When we had to
put new tires on our tractor that we do all the snow blowing with, that’s not something
we have the equipment to do, so that was $9K this winter with the amount of snow
blowing that we did. There is obviously the fact that if you don’t have staff, you’re going
to have to outsource more. Right now, we don’t have a place for another mechanic to
actually work, but we’re evaluating some low-cost options to make modifications to our
wash bay where we could actually add another hoist so we could add a mechanic.
That’s in the CIP for 2025, to make some very low-cost modifications relative to getting
an extra space for a mechanic so we could help deal with that issue. We also don’t want
to be putting in $250K hoist in a very old building, so we’d want to look at what we
should actually put in there for a hoist.
Director Malinowski stated as we went through the FMP this spring, Equipment
Certificates were proposed to be issued for equipment for the next four years, as we
were able to increase our levy for equipment. So, for 2024, we’re proposing to do
Equipment Certificates for about $840K for those three pieces, and then in 2025, about
$1.8M in Equipment Certificates, to pay for that equipment.
She thought it was at the first budget meeting we had, we looked at the slide and it
showed that in our Equipment Replacement Fund at the beginning of 2023 we’ve got
about $1.6M in cash. Director Burfeind had noted that we have some equipment that’s
on order, saying that we’re going to purchase it at that price that we have in the budget,
but we’re not sure of that. At the end of 2023, we’re at $890K, and with the equipment
proposed for 2024, our cash is down to $57K. We know in 2025, we’re going to have
push something else or make some changes there. One of the proposals with the levy
for 2024 would be to increase the levy to push it into the fund.
Mayor Bailey stated he knows staff has put many scenarios before us that we talked
about over the last couple meetings; he asked if that $350K was in this budget, and
Director Malinowski stated that is not. Mayor Bailey stated that’s because this is just raw
numbers, as it stands, which she confirmed.
Director Malinowski stated in 2025, we’re starting to show that the Debt Service
payments for Equipment Certificates is $98,474. Also, in 2025, we are starting to do the
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July 26, 2023
Page 27
equipment bonding for $600K, but we are proposing that you may want to consider
moving part of that levy into 2024.
Council Member Thiede asked if that would keep us under a $100 increase per year
for an average property; Director Malinowski replied it keeps us at $110, which is what
the FMP plan showed for 2024, and then it’s $100 going forward. Council Member
Thiede stated he still has issues with that.
Director Burfeind stated that’s all he has and asked if there were any questions.
Mayor Bailey stated he’d previously asked Director Burfeind now that we’re putting in
all of these new lights down around Jamaica and East Point Douglas Road, are we
going to have to add some décor and the banners to that area. He doesn’t know what
the cost is for that.
Burfeind replied it would just be the cost of the additional banners and bracketing.
Mayor Bailey stated we have some of those items down there already, on some of
the poles, but with some of the items that we have, we obviously don’t have the ability to
plug them in but the new poles will have the ability to plug. So, the items that light up
that we currently have for the holiday décor would be able to be used down there. He
doesn’t know how many more we would truly need.
Burfeind replied some of our decorations are getting in pretty tough shape, but that
might be another issue.
Director Burfeind stated hope for a light winter this year; Gary is predicting 38 inches
total. Mayor Bailey stated he’s going to hold him to that, as this is the longest it ever
took him to dig out his Christmas decorations.
Parks and Recreation
Director Dockter sincerely thanked Council for all of their support, commitment, and
resources to Parks and Recreation. Hopefully, you’re hearing and seeing all of the
major things we’re getting done, and how much the community members appreciate it.
Park Maintenance: Accomplishments: Glacial Valley Park and the building construction
are moving along; the building and park should be done by early fall. We’re doing a lot
of habitat restoration, which he’s sure you’ve seen, and we’ll continue to do more. We’re
updating a lot of equipment, playgrounds, picnic shelters, and adding new parks, new
facilities, and new trails and everything else all the time. Obviously, the Mississippi
Dunes was a major accomplishment, and we’re working to get that ready; on the
Council Update there will be ten things we’re trying to do to get that ready for public use.
2024 Goals: What’s not on here is the addition of a halftime employee; we currently
have a halftime Ice, halftime Parks employee, and we’re converting that to one fulltime
Parks employee. So, we’re adding half a position for Parks, which is also being
supported with revenue funding from facility rental fee increases, event fee increases,
and also some of the grant work that we do that we get reimbursed for through the State
or through the Federal government. Obviously, we’ll be guiding the Local Option Sales
Tax Program, so hopefully we’ll be meeting at a workshop here sometime in the fall;
we’ll talk about the next steps and get a strategy for that. Again, we’ll continue to
reinvest in the parks and build things out; obviously, there are new parks to come with
the Mississippi Dunes, Still Ponds, and future development areas. A lot of that
information will be discussed at the CIP Workshop on August 16.
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July 26, 2023
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Fee Increases: A lot of that is for the Parks position, but also a lot is for fleet and internal
services and fuel, everything that’s gone up with inflation that everyone else has talked
about. Many of those things are just out of control costs; fertilizer and all those things
have increased dramatically, so, we’re trying to maintain what we have and keep up
with our level of service.
Recreation Programs: Accomplishments: We’re trying to increase our adult programs,
we added the Wellness 50+ program, added a softball tournament out at Lamar, both in
the fall and the women’s tournament in the summer; so, we’re trying to reach out to
some of these different opportunities that maybe we haven’t dabbled in before, like the
snowshoe rentals. Almost all of our programs and events were very well received, as
most of our programs were filled to capacity, but they don’t get filled to the point where
we have a long waiting list, it’s usually only five or less people. So, it feels like quite a
good spot in terms of capacity. We have six large community events coming up in the
next few months that will take care of a lot of fall and winter opportunities for the
program. One thing we’re looking at getting into with the addition of Glacial Valley Park
is taking over some of the pickleball responsibilities; that volunteer group is looking to
get some support from us, so that will be another revenue opportunity, too, with leagues
and lessons and tournaments. 2024 Goals: Add a halftime employee to help support
marketing and programming efforts; we offset that with revenue in the budget. Adding
programming at Glacial Valley Park, as well as rentals there when we open that facility.
We’re always trying to achieve 45% plus cost recovery; this year, we’re at a little over
50% cost recovery in the budget we’re giving to the Council.
As in the Parks, the increased costs were at about a 20% increase in 2024; part of that,
too, is with Recreation Services in particular, because there is revenue associated with
it, as revenues go up, credit card fees go up. The cost of services to maintain those
rentals or to get supplies for programs, etc., as the revenues increase, so do the
expenses. You’ll see that once again the return on investment on those is supported in
the budget with revenues.
Council Member Thiede stated that’s one thing he didn’t notice; a lot of the higher
percentages were the credit card piece. Is that the actual percentage going up or just
the increased amount of revenue that we’re bringing in on credit cards such that it’s
higher.
Director Malinowski replied it is recovering what we’ve been paid for credit card fees
in the past; we haven’t necessarily been budgeting what we needed to in the credit card
fee line items.
Director Dockter stated he didn’t think our rate is going up, which Director Malinowski
confirmed. He asked Council Member Thiede if that’s what he was asking, and Council
Member Thiede stated yes, that’s what he was wondering.
Ice Arena: Director Dockter stated the Ice Arena is still doing very well.
Accomplishments: We added a Grizzly League program to supplement the loss of the
large three-on-three program when a gentleman had retired from doing that. Potentially,
we were going to lose a lot of south rink ice sales, but our staff, Park, Rec, and Ice
Arena worked together to create our own league, which has been a great way to
support the facility that way, through our own programs. We’re one of the few rinks that
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July 26, 2023
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does a lot of our own programming. A lot of rinks just rent the ice and that’s all they do.
We do skating school, we do hockey camps, we do a lot of clinics, now we have a
Grizzly League, so, we do a lot of stuff that other rinks aren’t willing to do. So, that’s one
benefit of having the Recreation and Ice Arena working so closely together. We did a lot
of renovations to the rink, improving the warming house, warming room, restrooms
down below. Obviously, we worked in the JV locker rooms, you say that lease of the
training spaces, etc. Advertising opportunities continue to grow, and Jordan’s doing a
great job with that. In particular, a lot of staff worked on the naming rights, which has
generated an opportunity to build our CIP for the Ice Arena; some of the items you’re
seeing in the budget are capital outlay items that are being taken out of the CIP,
specifically for the Ice Arena.
Director Dockter stated as he mentioned earlier, the current halftime position at the
Ice Arena is being proposed to go to one fulltime position; that would make the Ice
Arena have three fulltime positions. We’ve had three fulltime positions at the Ice Arena
since the late 1970s, early 1980s; Jordan has gotten by over the last six, seven years
without that person. We went to a halftime person to fill the gap, and he’s done a good
job of using itinerant staffing to do that, but we’re a large facility and we need that third
person to help maintain services there. Jordan is trying to improve the public skating
experience, which is a great opportunity by adding party lights and more rental skates,
because that’s become pretty popular. That’s great because you don’t need to be a
hockey player, figure skater, or broomball player to enjoy public skating. Anybody off the
street can come and enjoy that opportunity. He’s glad to see we’re investing into that
opportunity. Obviously, we’re following the 2020 to 2025 Business Plan and trying to
meet those objectives. You’ll see the revenues continue to exceed expenses, so, the
additional costs that you saw and Budget Additions are covered through revenues.
Director Dockter stated one thing that’s worth noting is that we include Debt Service
on here; we’ve always made an operational budget, which doesn’t mean we always
include Debt Service, but now we’re actually starting to fully cover our Debt Service as
well. Most arenas don’t even cover their operational budget, and we are actually
covering operational plus our Debt Service. Debt Service comes off in 2027 for the west
rink, so, we’re in good shape.
Mayor Bailey asked if the only other debt is the air conditioning unit/freezer equipment;
Director Dockter replied yes. Mayor Bailey stated if that’s it at this point, that’s pretty
dang good; nice job on the Ice Arena again.
Director Dockter stated one thing is we built the west rink in 2008, so, we’re getting
into that 15-to-20-year life expectancy on a lot of the humidifiers and other things; our
theory on that is we’re going to maintain it as well as we can and get as much life out of
it as we can. We’re not just going to replace it when it’s supposed to be replaced; so, if
the humidifiers broke this year, which is like a $200K expense per, well, we’ve done a
good job of maintaining them. So, we think we can get another five-to-eight years out of
them; we’ll run them until they die.
Director Docker asked if there were any questions.
Council Member Olsen stated outstanding job with the revenue generation at the Ice
Arena; it’s been really fun to watch as we continue to add events and activities but yet
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July 26, 2023
Page 30
still find a way to maintain that revenue to offset operating costs. We weren’t always
able to do that, so, that is really fun to see. Not only that, but also with the debt included
in there, keep doing whatever you’re doing. He knows advertising is a big part of that,
and the arena works very hard on that, so good work. His question is really about the
personnel for both Parks and for the Ice Arena. He wants to make sure he understands
what Director Dockter said. You currently have a person who does halftime at the arena
and halftime at Parks. So, that person you are now theoretically proposing to be fulltime
in one slot or the other. If it’s the arena, that will give you three fulltime people at the
arena again, which he thought they had when Director Dockter worked there; Director
Dockter confirmed that. So, that’s been a really long time. So, even with all that extra
stuff that you guys are doing, you’re just looking to get back to three. But what that does
is it creates the need for a body to fill the other slot; if we go halftime to fulltime at the
arena, you would lose your halftime person in Parks, and you’re looking to add a body
in Parks. The way that you proposed to pay for that is through revenue increases. He
asked if that was accurate; Director Dockter replied that was correct.
Council Member Olsen stated we know that we continue to have more events,
softball tournaments, Strawberry Fest, Fourth of July, and it feels like every weekend his
people are working. And we also know that we’ve spent quite a bit of overtime because
we really had to, we didn’t have much of a choice; if you’re going to get the work done,
we have to spend money on overtime. He asked if one person is going to be enough to
provide you with the flexibility that you need to reduce your overtime, provide additional
work-life balance for the current employees who are working weekends and nights, etc.
for all these other events. Yes, they’re getting paid, but at some point you can’t pay
them enough money to not stay home with their family at night. They can only miss so
many birthdays and things like that, because they’re also plowing snow. So, is the one
employee going to be enough?
Director Dockter asked Jim Fohrman, Parks Superintendent, to answer that
question. Jim replied big picture, no, but one employee will help us as we move forward
with projects, etc. Our 50-50 person knows what he knows; when he hits the ground
running, it’s like it’s all go. He doesn’t have time to train on all of the little things that we
do. So, having a person there that can learn that stuff in the offseason will be a big
benefit to us. In the wintertime, he thinks that number is a good number for us where
we’re at. If we added two more employees, it would be like what do I do with that person
in the wintertime when there’s 42 inches of snow on the ground. It would be tough to get
in the woods and do stuff like that. He thinks balancing out throughout the year he
thinks gets us the number we need to be at right now.
Director Dockter stated we talked a lot about Parks, and he thinks we forget the
winter, what a typical winter looks like. He appreciates that you said they push snow;
they push snow just like everybody else. There’s an all call, and every Parks guy is out
pushing snow. When our parks start to close down in November, we basically go in the
woods and lumberjack for about two months until the snow gets too deep. So, we’re just
out in the woods lumberjacking, then we get to December and we’re prepping rinks and
we’re flooding, and we’re taking care of rinks for about two months. When those start to
slow down, we go back out and trim up trees and lumberjack and push snow again. So,
the winter goes by really fast, there’s a lot to do.
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July 26, 2023
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Mayor Bailey stated he was trying to understand or remember what we did last year;
so, this half person between the two was the one that you wanted and split, is that
correct.
Director Dockter replied yes, but if he can go back a little bit further, you might
remember we asked for two. Council Member Olsen stated we only gave them one.
Council Member Dennis stated that we wanted to give two, but you guys only took one,
and you divided it half and half, right?
Director Dockter stated the Council only funded one.
Council Member Dennis stated yes, but he thought that we wanted two people
because the dialogue was that it went 20 some years without adding a single person,
and we talked about all the new parks and the miles of trails, etc. that we do. Yet, you
guys were handling more workload without having the added level of staff in order to do
it. So, he thought the spirit of what we wanted to see was that we didn’t just want a
Band-Aid, we wanted to do it right and get you the people that you needed to have
because this is an important program for the community. He knows it’s not necessarily a
core level of service, but it’s one of those things that as amenities it makes people
appreciate living here. They value it. And so we wanted to do that, and you guys are
always humble and he thought sometimes to your detriment because if the goal is truly
to say you want to get to the level of giving the quality and the service that we aspire to
and that people want to have, at some point you’ve got to just do it.
Council Member Olsen said so, the one person that you got last year we also gave
you equipment for that person; we gave you a new pickup truck. He asked is that
person the 50-50 person you’re describing right now.
Director Dockter replied no, that was a new fulltime position.
Council Member Olsen stated so, we gave you one, and then you still have a 50-50
that you’re using now. So, that person is going to become a fulltime employee, either at
the arena or in the Parks Department, right?
Mayor Bailey stated it’s both, isn’t it?
Director Dockter replied yes. We have 50, and now we’re going to go up one and
more.
Council Member Olsen stated right, so, what’s your asking for is another person. So,
when we gave you the one last year and Council Member Dennis brought up the fact
that we talked about two last year. So, really the way we did it was we split the baby, we
gave you one last year and one this year. His question is if you add that person this
year, are you going to be able to then have enough flexibility to give your guys the time
off that they need and deserve because we’re running them ragged and we’re spending
a boatload of overtime. Is that going to help you reduce your overtime spending, or do
you need more than that.
Director Dockter stated he’d love to say yes, but at the rate of growth, until that rate
of growth changes, it’s hard to commit to a yes. If the rate of growth doesn’t change for
events and the growth in the park system over time will go down, and gentlemen will get
more time off. If we continue to grow events and the park system, there will be more
service needs.
Council Member Olsen asked Director Dockter if he could predict, would he say that
the number of events are going to decrease, stay the same, or are they going to grow.
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July 26, 2023
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Council Member Khambata stated with COVID wasn’t an asterisk in 2021 and 2022,
everyone got outside to do things they didn’t do, like a lot of bikes, a lot of
Paddleboards. Are you seeing registrations for our facilities level off or continue to grow
at variable rates.
Director Dockter stated everything is now growing at a high percentage rate.
Council Member Olsen stated our goal has always been to be a recreation
destination, and we’re a bit of a victim of our own execution on that because we get
tournaments for all kinds of national events that come here because we do such a good
job. And we don’t even charge CGAA to make the fields nice, so, that’s just more work.
Again, what he would hate to see happen is we continue to provide this outstanding
level of service even though there is an expanding workload, and the cost that we pay
for that is we’re burning our people out and/or we’re having massive overtime issues. If
you just cut overtime, your labor budget goes down significantly, and in the long run
you’re going to save money; that’s all he’s trying to figure out.
Council Member Thiede stated if you get another person, you have the fulltime
benefits and everything else, then you add training, and you add all that sort of stuff.
Council Member Olsen stated but it’s still cheaper than paying somebody overtime.
Council Member Thiede stated not all the time. You can’t make that blank statement,
and he’s been in the industry as long as you have. Council Member Olsen stated he
runs retail businesses, he can say with absolute certainty that overtime is more
expensive.
Council Member Dennis stated there’s just one additional thing that we’ve got to
factor, Glacial Valley Park, with all the stuff that’s going to go on there. And the
Mississippi Dunes park. So, we’re adding additional features that are going to require
oversight, management, maintenance, administration, etc. And we’re just not getting to
the point where we need to be always behind the eight ball because we don’t have
enough people in that area.
Council Member Olsen stated the team that’s there now, told Jim that his guys are
working day and night, and he knows they’re still cleaning up trees from April. They’re
doing such amazing work, but again, there’s a cost. People are human beings; at some
point, they’re just going to run out of juice. They’re going to need a day off or they’re
going to need a vacation. That’s all he’s trying to get at; Council Member Dennis said it
so well, you’re very humble and sometimes you’re the victim of your own humility. He's
trying to figure out, in full transparency, if what you’re proposing is to take a .5 position,
make them fulltime, have them go here, and then bring on another here, so you’re
adding a body, just like you did last year. Is that enough?
Director Dockter stated it’s enough today.
Mayor Bailey asked if that’s already in the funding, right; Administrator Levitt replied
the half and half. Council Member Olsen stated the half and half is offset by revenue;
Administrator Levitt stated that’s correct.
Mayor Bailey stated so, what he’s hearing is we’re going to give you a fulltime
person at the Ice Arena, and you’re going to get a fulltime person on the Parks side at
no levy impact. At this point, we’re good.
Director Dockter stated that’s correct.
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Mayor Bailey stated he thought what others were questioning was is that going to be
enough.
Council Member Dennis stated and that’s because we don’t know. We don’t have an
understanding at this level, but obviously, if a director or a supervisor left an
organization, we’re going to know that; what we don’t know is people who fill line-level
positions, what is your turnover rate. Are we seeing people leave because the workload
is too much; how does that part of the business look?
Director Dockter replied right now, our turnover has been pretty good. There was a
high turnover before with a lot of the retirements. Right now, we’re in good shape, when
we get the right employees in the right positions. We’ve had a couple of people leave
because they got here and it didn’t quite turn out the way they thought the position was
going to be, but when they’re here, they’re pretty much 100% committed. We’ve been
dealing with some disability things and some other things, so, those are the things that
you can’t account for sometimes. There’s parental leave now; someone leaves for four-
or-six weeks, those things add up, those are a lot of hours out of the field. So, what he’s
saying is he’ll be back to fight another day when we’re ready for it, but this position is
going to get us where we need to be for now. And he really appreciates the support
because he’s told his staff we need to start fighting a little harder; so, he appreciates
when Council says that we need to start fighting for ourselves a little bit harder and
getting the people we need in the right positions.
Mayor Bailey stated the two that he’s currently proposing, with one on each side to
make you have FTEs on both, and then we technically have almost a year before
Glacial Valley Park gets going, and honestly, Mississippi Dunes. Because Mississippi
Dunes won’t really have programming, but it will probably still need mowing for the time
being, until more happens there. We may need to look at that as something for next
year.
Jim stated there’s a lot of unknowns with those two yet. There’s a rental party room,
meeting room, what that’s going to take for maintenance; we’re going to learn that as
we go through that first year. So, that itself could be one of those things where we’re
going to need a body just to handle room setup, cleaning carpets, doing all that stuff.
We just don’t know because we haven’t had it yet.
Mayor Bailey stated maybe in preparation for that, just from a knowledge standpoint,
he’d be interested to know how Woodbury does with their park they rent out.
Molly Pietruszewski, Recreation Manager, stated it’s Ojibway Park, and it’s similar to
what we’re going to be able to offer at Glacial Valley Park, in terms of amenities and
space. Right now, they’re averaging about 80 rentals a year.
Mayor Bailey stated he can see that happening at Glacial Valley Park, too, so, we’re
going to need to keep our fingers on that. He asked Director Dockter how many
pickleball courts they’ve installed; Director Dockter replied six.
Council Member Olsen stated they’re picking that business up, too. Mayor Bailey
stated that is going to be unbelievable.
Director Dockter stated it’s just expectations are changing; when you rent that
facility, your expectations of service are going to be higher.
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July 26, 2023
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Mayor Bailey stated it’s good; there are a number of people who are telling him that
they’re excited about the pickleball courts going in there. Director Dockter added with
lights!
Ice Arena Solar Power Proposal
Director Dockter stated he’s just going to give this at a very high level, but the game of
solar energy has changed, especially with this 30% Inflation Reduction Act Credit. So,
we’re looking at putting a rooftop solar array on the west rink; that’s the flat roof, so you
wouldn’t be able to see it from 80th Street or from the ballfields. It’s on a flat roof, just
underneath the little rise of the roof edge. It should generate between 5% to 25% of the
Ice Arena’s energy consumption, depending on the month; obviously, it’s less in the
winter, more in the summer.
The total cost after the Inflation Reduction Act on two separate proposals will range
between $343K and $372K; life expectancy is 30 years, with projected energy savings
of anywhere between $1.4M and $1.5M. That puts a return on investment (ROI) of
between eight and nine years, which is pretty solid.
There are a lot of variables in the two proposals, both from Minnesota companies, so
he streamlined those and put that spreadsheet in your report. The variables could be
the degradation of the solar panels, how much energy you lose over the years, the
increased energy cost, as some of them anticipate 3% a year, one anticipated 4%. If we
put all the variables as the same, we ended up with these numbers. So, Solar
Connection has a lower cost up front, at about $342K, projecting about $1.436M in
energy savings, with a ROI of 8.8 years. Cedar Creek’s total project cost was higher, at
$371K; they’re projecting a higher energy savings because they get a little bit more
output on their kilowatts, so it will give a little bit more savings over 30 years. ROI is
about 9.1 years.
Director Dockter asked if the Council has interest in solar at the Ice Arena.
Administrator Levitt stated they’re proposing, obviously, to use the naming rights
dollars to upfront this cost, so, it’s not something that’s borne by the General Levy or the
actual enterprise itself.
Mayor Bailey asked when are you talking about the geo; is that coming yet? Director
Dockter replied yes, that’s the next item he’ll be speaking about. Mayor Bailey stated he
thinks it’s a no brainer from his standpoint, especially knowing the energy costs at the
Ice Arena. He’s assuming Director Dockter would be happy with a system like this;
Director Dockter stated yes.
Mayor Bailey asked when they spoke with these two companies, is there ever a point
where we’d be selling energy back. Director Dockter replied no, just because we
consume so much every day. He stated there was one proposal that had a barrel roof,
and he didn’t think we were quite ready for that because then we’d see the solar panels.
Council Member Olsen asked if this would be similar to what was on the former City
Hall building; Director Burfeind replied yes, and there is some roof warranty that comes
with it. He also mentioned that Dan at the HERO Center had taken his report and he’ll
probably be coming back to Council, too, as he’s interested in solar for the HERO
Center. Council Member Olsen stated it seems to make good sense.
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July 26, 2023
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Mayor Bailey asked with the project life energy savings, Cedar Creek had more
kilowatts. Director Dockter stated yes, they get a little more kilowatts out of their system,
so, you’ll see that they’ll get over 30 years, so, theoretically, you can make another
$75K; that’s a projected savings. So, the question is do you want to spend a little less
upfront or shoot for that longer-term savings.
Council Member Olsen asked Director Dockter what are the annual Ice Arena energy
costs; Director Dockter replied $170K-$200K, but that’s with natural gas, too.
Council Member Thiede asked if he had any idea in their calculation for their energy
savings, what kind of escalation was used on the electric costs. Director Dockter replied
one was using 4% and one was using 3%, and stated he used 3% for us.
Council Member Khambata asked what are the potential adverse impacts on the life
and serviceability of the roof, and you’d said it doesn’t penetrate the rubber membrane
or anything, it’s basically sitting on top. The upfront cost of this is going to be covered by
the naming rights agreement, so there’s not going to be any debt service attached to
this. So, from year one you’ll see an offset savings. His question is as difficult as it’s
been to find dedicated funding sources for some of these improvements to our parks, is
there a way to kind of redirect that approximately $40K or $50K a year in savings
towards some CIP projects that Parks has been looking to find funding for.
Director Burfeind replied he and Director Malinowski talked about that a little bit.
Director Malinowski stated that she would guess that we could transfer the Ice Arena
Fund to help fund future equipment or operating costs. Director Burfeind stated so, we
do that, and that money goes into a capital fund, which is separate from the Ice Arena
Fund. If the Ice Arena makes $130K this year, that money stays in that Ice Arena
balance so that it helps fund future years. So, to your point, that money doesn’t leave
the Ice Arena. It’s kind of two separate funds.
Mayor Bailey stated we also know what a Zamboni costs. Council Member
Khambata stated that’s what he’s saying, to make sure that money gets earmarked for
future Ice Arena. Mayor Bailey stated he likes his idea, except he knows that if we don’t
create this balance as we can at the Ice Arena, eventually they’re going to have to come
back to us and say you need to spend $1M to replace the system to keep the ice cold,
etc. He knows Director Dockter has a list, and we’ll see it when we do the capital
improvements.
Council Member Khambata stated the only thing he doesn’t want to see is an
operations cost that just comes off the budget and doesn’t ever benefit the Ice Arena or
Parks. Director Dockter stated no, it stays with the Ice Arena.
Director Malinowski stated, currently, the Ice Arena Fund has a negative cash
balance, so that would help to bring that cash balance back to zero.
Council Member Khambata stated good, he’s all for it then, as long as the savings
that’s recaptured stays in Parks and gets utilized, he’s fine. Council Member Thiede
stated that’s what he was going to say.
Mayor Bailey asked if Council had a preference, Cedar Creek or Solar Connection.
Council Member Olsen stated whichever one they like best. Council Member Thiede
stated he liked Solar Connection. Council Member Khambata asked if the warranties for
workmanship and durability were similar. Director Dockter replied yes, and they’re both
very reputable companies, they’re on the same kind of track.
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Council Member Olsen asked Jordan what’s his preference. Jordan replied he liked
Solar Connection, just with the lifespan of 30 years, you don’t know where the money
will be. He thought upfront costs were lower, so Solar Connection would be his choice.
Council Member Olsen stated that’s good enough for him. Council Member
Khambata agreed.
Geothermal at Glacial Valley Park
Director Dockter stated a month ago they started to drill the horizontal piping for wells
for the geothermal, ran into rock, tried it again, and ran into rock. The crew left to work
in Iowa on other projects.
So, we did a different layout, and these people are busy, so, they finally got back
today and started drilling again; they drilled two, hit rock, and then they asked us if we
wanted to leave, as they needed to return to Iowa, or they could stay here and fight the
rock. So, we told them to leave, as it’s just not going to work.
There were 12-to-14 horizontal wells, and they can do vertical wells, but now we’re
talking about 30-to-45 vertical wells they need to put in, which we pay for per foot, etc.
So, they’re talking between $90K-$150K to do the vertical well system; that’s on top of
whatever we already approved for the original geothermal. If we decide to just scratch
the geothermal, we’ll still have the solar there, and we’ll go to a standard boiler system
and a condenser for AC; that will be a $30K+ credit towards the project.
Council Member Khambata stated we named it Glacial Valley Park, so he’s not really
surprised that we hit bedrock. What’s the likelihood that we’re going to hit bedrock when
we drill vertically.
Director Dockter replied that’s the other challenge; we would have to go back, so,
we’ve already done lots of test boring there, and we’d have to start that process all over
again, to try to figure out where we can put these holes.
Council Member Khambata asked are we chasing good dollars with bad at this point;
Director Dockter replied that could very well be.
Mayor Bailey stated at this point, as much as he really wanted to see us do that to
make that completely ecofriendly, if you will, it’s not worth the extra cost.
Council Member Khambata stated he doesn’t think that will work. Council Member
Thiede stated it wasn’t an ideal geothermal location anyway.
Director Dockter stated he thought the payback was about 20 years, it was pretty
high, but now we have this.
Council Member Khambata stated he thinks this negates the potential benefits of the
geothermal system in this location; that doesn’t mean it can’t work elsewhere, but he
thinks this is a bad location. Council Member Thiede stated if the lake was still there, we
could just put hoses 15 feet down into the water. Council Member Khambata stated this
might be a potential cost overrun on this project.
Director Dockter stated okay, he thinks he got direction from Council.
River Oaks Golf Course
Accomplishments: Director Dockter stated obviously we’ve implemented a new
management team there, which is off and running with some great success. We
successfully operate 13 leagues and nearly 60 tournaments, so it’s busy all the time.
Bocce ball is going crazy, they filled that up within days. Everything River Oaks is doing
right now seems to be popular, from what he can see. The irrigation replacement
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started last week; we got to go down and see them fusing the pipe, which is an
impressive process in itself. The gentleman loves pipe and spoke at length to us about
pipes; he told us that basically we have a lifetime system there, kudos to everybody who
invested in that, as he said it should last us 100 years. So, there will be a hole closure
here and there, as we close those holes, we’ll open up the mini hole by the pumphouse,
so people will always be able to play 18 holes. For their inconvenience, they’ll get a $5
voucher for the clubhouse, too. 2024 Goals: We’re still following the guidelines of the
2020-2025 Business Plan: We’re trying to update the clubhouse flooring, as it has that
old style of carpet. We’re going to upgrade the dancefloor. Improving the course trails
that are just kind of overrun, especially where roots have broken them up. Joe would
like to replace a rough mower. Dennis would like to enhance the patio experience to
continue to build on that niche that we have in the patio.
We’re on pace operationally to make a profit again for the sixth consecutive year. We
continue to significantly invest in capital, which is awesome, we’re making the building
better, making the outdoors better, making our equipment better; that’s something that
we kind of abandoned for a while. So, for the last ten years or so it’s been a very well
invested in facility. 2022 reflects over $274K in irrigation expenses; that’s why for that
one year you see it’s a little bit out of whack with expenses and revenues. Moving
forward, we are projecting income to outpace expenses, and that also includes the bond
payment for the irrigation project at $183K.
Mayor Bailey asked if that’s paying back the EDA; Director Malinowski and Director
Dockter replied yes.
Council Member Olsen asked if they were installing new carpet there this year;
Director Dockter replied that’s what’s proposed in 2024.
Mayor Bailey stated he still remembers the day when we were out there trying to
figure out what we’re going to do with that golf course; it was discussed maybe we
should just sell it and be done with it, and you have done an amazing job with the team
down there to change things around. Just like with the Ice Arena, he remembers many
years ago there was also a discussion about the City selling the Ice Arena for $1 so we
didn’t have to deal with it anymore. When you think about that mindset compared to
where we are today with both of those projects, you’ve done a great job.
Council Member Olsen asked how’s the league participation; are we seeing the men’s
leagues and the women’s leagues continue to grow.
Dennis Neitz, General Manager, replied leagues have been very good this year; he
thought we were up every week of junior league, it went from about 85 to about 140,
and it just keeps growing. He thought last year we did about $2.6M in revenue, and this
year he’d say we’re on pace for about $3M in revenue. Once we get through this
irrigation project, the course will be in really good condition, and we appreciate
everyone’s support.
Dennis stated they’re looking at different shows, comedy is actually one of them, and
some of the signature events are coming back; Dueling Pianos is one of the things
that’s a really good draw, it draws lots of different people. There aren’t a whole lot of
other places in Cottage Grove that do it, so he thinks it’s a good niche for us. We also
hope to have a magic show, a gentleman who was also at Strawberry Fest.
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July 26, 2023
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Council Member Olsen stated you had talked to us last year a little bit about trying to
stabilize your staffing situation, which would then enable you to have a more consistent
dinner crowd, etc. At the risk of opening up a can of worms, how has that been going?
Dennis replied building wise, the clubhouse has done really well this year. He would
say we are not where we want to be yet for the restaurant. That’s something that we’re
working toward, it’s a goal that we have. It’s probably the hardest part of the divisions
that we have here. Our goal is to get there. He thinks Andy has done a wonderful job in
the Bar & Grill, but there are challenges that go along with the consistency; how many
hours we can work people, can we get people to maintain and stay there because it’s
up and down. Summer months it’s great, but winter comes around and it’s hard to keep
staff; that’s probably the biggest challenge for our parttime staff is making sure that they
make enough money consistently to be able to keep them there. But it’s a goal that we
have, and he’d like to be able to wave a magic wand; the Local Option Sales Tax
referendum is in 2024. Quite honestly, his personal feeling is that we have to find a way
to have maybe a better ambience that will draw people in. We hear it from our crowd;
we have a lot of seniors that come down there, and they don’t like driving down there at
night, they don’t like crossing Highway 61. We don’t have the same crowd as Junction
70 with kind of their ambience. He thinks it’s going to take some time to get there, but
it’s the direction we want to get to.
Council Member Thiede stated we talked about having done better with like the
theme type stuff, with the Fish Frys. We’ve had previous discussions about different
ways to have some theme-type deals or getting the community involved in like special
menu items or things like that. Have we thought about that much more?
Dennis replied yes, probably in the next month you’ll see the fall-winter stuff start
rolling out with the signature events, the Fish Fry, etc. will come.
Council Member Thiede asked if they were going to have a Caribbean night or a
Hawaiian night or a Texas night, or even like other counties have a family night where
they bring out bowls of mashed potatoes, etc. to have a family dinner type deal. He
knows that’s extra work, but it might help to lengthen the time that you could employ
people; that’s the toughest thing, trying to find people that have to have multiple jobs,
who try to work parttime at River Oaks and parttime somewhere else.
Dennis stated theme nights are good, we’ve done very well with the themes. They’re
easy to staff, we know how many people are coming; the difficult things are when we
don’t know how many people are coming, as it makes it very challenging and less
profitable.
Mayor Bailey asked if they’d thought of going back and redoing the Friendsgiving
thing again. Dennis replied that’s one of the things that we’ll be talking about here in the
next weeks.
Mayor Bailey stated he really enjoyed that, but you have to make sure it’s profitable,
and that was family style. Council Member Olsen stated it was great; Mayor Bailey
concurred and said we had a great time.
Council Member Khambata asked how are the weddings and other banquet events
doing.
Dennis replied events are good; this month alone we have 26 of 31 days in August
booked with events. The slowest time for the hospitality industry is January through
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July 26, 2023
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February, that’s the hardest time. For us, it’s a nice complement because this year
Bocce Ball has really taken off. When you come to our parking lot on Thursday night,
we’ve had cars parked down towards the church because it’s that busy; just because
we have an event going on, we have golf leagues going on, we’ve got Bocce Ball. But
the events have been good.
Council Member Khambata stated those are profitable because you know who’s
coming up front, who’s paid for up front, that type of thing. Okay, that’s good.
Dennis stated when somebody can come in and tell us how many people they’re
going to have and they have the menu picked out, we have no problem getting things in
place, and we know how many people we have to staff. That’s kind of our sweet spot of
making it work.
Council Member Olsen stated your team is doing awesome with those, too; Courtney
is all over it. Dennis stated of course Joel is here, too, and Wade. When you look at a lot
of courses around the Twin Cities, division wise, they’re doing a fabulous job. Wade is
very good about equipment being maintained properly; he and Joel communicate very
well, so kudos to Joel, they do a great job. Council Member Olsen told Dennis make
sure they come to work on Sunday because he and Mayor Bailey are playing in the
Public Safety Golf Tournament Saturday and they’re going to have some divots to fix.
Mayor Bailey stated hopefully they won’t have to close the course after we’re done.
Mayor Bailey told Director Dockter and Molly that he’s had some citizens reach out to
him; on Election Day, the schools are closed, so there was a request for something we
can do either through Parks or in combination with the School District to provide some
type of a place for kids to be so their parents can actually work on Election Day. He’s
just throwing that out there for them; maybe it’s a situation where we can reach out to
our friends at School District 833 to see if there’s some type of a joint thing that can be
done with their staff to help. By then, all of our summer staff is back to school.
Council Member Olsen stated they have the Kids Club at ISD 833, don’t they? Molly
replied she didn’t think so on Election Day, they’re closed.
Mayor Bailey stated that’s why there’s nothing for the kids to do; so, basically, the
parents take a day off to take care of their kids. He doesn’t know how widespread that
is, but he’s had more than four people call him, asking if there’s anything available. He
told them maybe we could look at something, so, of course, that went like wildfire; so,
maybe he shouldn’t have said that might be an option.
Molly stated we can figure something out, that would be easy. Mayor Bailey stated
he’d be interested to know if there’s interest in it, but enough people have reached out
to him asking about it that if there’s a way to do it, that would be great.
Levy
Council Member Olsen asked Administrator Levitt if they were able to figure out
anything on that remaining balance in that TIF District 1-8.
Administrator Levitt replied Ehlers is working on some TIF reports right now, and
Ehlers hasn’t gotten a final memo to us yet. Director Malinowski stated she asked them
for August, the TIF Reports due date to the State is August 1, so, it should be coming in
the next couple days.
Director Malinowski stated at the last meeting and what was in your packet is the
levy proposal is 9.99%. Looking at Equipment Replacement and the FMP, because the
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July 26, 2023
Page 40
FMP suggested that we needed $110 on that Sample Property 1, that we could go at
11.68%; but it allows us to in 2025 have less of a levy impact with the repayment
coming on in 2025 for debt.
So, with the first one, 9.99%, you can see that Sample Property 1 is $90, but it’s like
a spike up to $148 in 2025. With the second option of 11.68%, it’s $110 vs. $106 in the
second year. On your table, we’ve had some requests of different levy scenarios, so
those are there: 9.99%, 11.68%, 12.10%, 11.83%, 11.99%. So, those are different
scenarios and what the impacts would be to that Sample Property 1.
Council Member Olsen asked what the second year result is for each one of these.
Director Malinowski stated she doesn’t have that in front of her, but the second one,
12.10%, would be a little bit less of an impact in 2025, at $106. It depends on what
we’re going, if it’s one time vs. recurring. Each one would have a little bit less of an
impact in 2025.
Council Member Olsen stated she said that the 11.68%, which would be $110 a
household, the next year impact would be $106; so, it stands to reason then that the
$148, which is 12.10%, $115 a household would be less than $106 next year, and the
same would be true for the 11.83% and the 11.99% scenarios, correct? Director
Malinowski stated that’s correct.
Council Member Thiede stated he’d just like to see what would happen, because
again he’s very much a fan of leveling out and the FMP. But he would really like to see it
at $100 or less and see what would happen. What wouldn’t we be able to do if we kept
that at; again, Sample Property 1, he might even say what if we looked at what would
be the average of the four properties, because there’s a mix of properties, such that we
said on an average of those four sample properties we’re keeping it under $100. Now,
again, that might be because of us and not necessarily because of what the County or
the appreciation of the homes would be. It would be just solely if we said that that
appreciation was stable that we’re keeping that increase under, with the FMP, under
$100 a year on the average for those four sample ranges.
Administrator Levitt told Council Member Thiede if he was looking at Sample
Property 1 and it hit $100, you could add $175K to the levy; so, essentially, half of the
three, and that was the goal.
Council Member Thiede asked her to say that again.
Administrator Levitt stated he had said you really wanted to see Sample Property 1
stay at $100; so, if you went for $100, you’d be increasing the levy by $175K. So, that
would actually be adding to it to be at $100. She reminded him you’re probably going to
be at $138.
Council Member Thiede stated that’s what he’s saying; what would we have to do,
saying well, there’s just so much money. We don’t have an unlimited supply of money,
so, if we said we have a FMP where we’re holding that at $100 for the next 10 years; he
was trying to find that one draft for the FMP in terms of when we extrapolated that out,
there was definitely some lower ones. He thought the average overall was probably less
than $100. And he’d just like to see what if we managed that to that $100 or less going
out.
Director Malinowski stated she understood his question, she appreciated it. We had
less than $100 in future years; we can’t get less than $110 or $100 without having
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July 26, 2023
Page 41
impact in the future because you have to increase the levy. Every time you increase the
levy at the front end, it has the same effect on the back end. So, you can’t just increase
it enough at the back end to get what you need in the front end.
Mayor Bailey stated because you’d be taking on debt if you decided you were going
to maintain your spending.
Council Member Thiede stated well, yeah, and the options would be that you may
not have as much money to spend.
Director Malinowski stated we would have to look at our budget in more detail and
not fund some things. And we know that in the FMP, in our Closed Debt Fund, we’re
already utilizing a small portion of it every year throughout the 10 years of that FMP. So,
we’re already using cash in the FMP. So, if we did $100 on that Sample Property 1, it
would be $175K increase; year 1 would be $100, but next year without making cuts, it
would be $137 for the impact, so $100 and $137.
Council Member Thiede stated well, again, he’d be interested to find out well, if we
did that, what kind of cuts do we have to make.
Mayor Bailey stated he’ll interject himself into it. So, the FMP was at $110, he asked
if that was accurate; Director Malinowski replied that was accurate. He stated we’re
done with all of our departments, they presented, and everybody has given us their
information, things that they want or didn’t want. So, for Council, he’ll share a couple
things: One of the big things that we even saw again today since we talked about the
Equipment Replacement Fund, he knows staff showed an option where we did a
proposed levy at 11.68%, with $350K going to the Equipment Replacement Fund. He
also heard from Public Safety that yes, we are giving them the cops, but one of the
interesting things he thought when he listed some of the things that are going on,
whether it’s with Parks or Public Works, etc. is a feeder system into our Public Safety
and the number of people that Director Koerner shared that come through those C.S.O.
hours is pretty cool. He’d be interested to see for the Parks and Public Works how many
people started out maybe as the groundskeepers or whatever and moved up. So, he’d
like to know that just from you guys, because we’ve got some data from Public Safety.
He’s not advocating that we could do the full, he thinks you were asking for $110; he’s
not asking for that. But if we could do, on this list that’s before us with all the different
numbers, he was looking at the far right column where we would help prop up the
Equipment Replacement Fund with $319K, we’d put $55K towards C.S.O. hours for
next year. We would then be able to build the siren out for the East Ravine area, along
with Glacial Valley Park. He also shared with them, and knows Director Koerner
confirmed it, too, that if we in essence do the Glacial Valley Park area, which is need of
a siren, Washington County will take care of the Ravine Park area. Administrator Levitt
stated they’re meeting tomorrow. Mayor Bailey stated he’s already heard; so, if they say
anything different, then you call me because I already heard from the other two, but just
to give you a heads up. That was the intent so that the County would then cover the
siren. So, at this moment, looking forward, the only other outdoor warning siren that we
would eventually need at this point would be the Mississippi Dunes park area down
there, towards the island.
Council Member Olsen stated he agrees with Mayor Bailey wholeheartedly on the
siren; that’s a Public Safety thing and we can’t ignore that. People deserve that,
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July 26, 2023
Page 42
especially with the amount of housing. Mayor Bailey stated yes, and with the nice park
that’s going in out there.
Council Member Olsen asked Director Koerner if the $55K going to give him enough
flexibility with your C.S.O.s to accomplish what you guys were talking about in your
presentation; you were talking about prisoner transports, and he knows the C.S.O.s go
through the parks.
Mayor Bailey stated to segue, when we were talking about the needs for Parks, that
would be another possible plus for C.S.O. hours in there. So, other than the things that
Parks is doing, C.S.O.s are also opening and closing our parks, our buildings, and
making sure that things are okay. Council Member Olsen stated that is one less thing
that Director Dockter’s team needs to worry about.
Director Koerner stated currently we have our C.S.O.s seven days a week, from 7:00
a.m. to 11:00 p.m. With the $55K, we’d be able to add a power shift and just where
they’d best fit into that schedule; right now, it’s probably more evenings.
Council Member Olsen stated he knows it’s not the full $110K, but asked if it would
be reasonable; Director Koerner replied yes, it would.
Mayor Bailey stated if you couple that with the police officers that we’re bringing on
board, he thinks it really shores you up. He thinks what staff is proposing for the Fire
program with the combination of the fulltime Fire and the plans there, we’re looking at
that as a benefit. He’s thinking we get another person in the Ice Arena, and you’re going
to get a full person in Parks. Public Works will get their next plow route, finally, to help
with that.
Council Member Olsen asked from an Equipment Replacement perspective, he
knows that the FMP proposal called for $350K, and the proposal that Mayor Bailey
mentioned is $319,100. It doesn’t look like a lot on paper, but it could look like a lot in
terms of the future impact. He asked if they could work with that; is that something that
is acceptable to staff.
Administrator Levitt replied absolutely. As Director Burfeind mentioned, there are
some lease programs for the trucks, so maybe we buy down that cost and maybe we do
more leases and we’d buy down that initial cost, and that will just continue to buffer us.
Mayor Bailey asked Director Malinowski when she was doing these adjustments that
you’re showing to us, he thought in the other one she did not have the $300K, $315K, or
$350K, that wasn’t in the budget. So, that would help level out with the option for some
lease and give us a little buffer.
Director Malinowski stated she just wants to be clear, our other option where we’ve
got the $350K, in order to keep that tax in 2025 low, we took it out of the 2025 levy
amount.
Mayor Bailey stated so, the $350K is out of the $106; Director Malinowski stated
correct, it is.
Council Member Olsen stated he thinks we’re on the right track, but we’ve got to put
money in Equipment Replacement; there’s no question about it.
Council Member Khambata stated he agrees that $100 is the target for increases;
however, he thinks going from $90 to $148 or $100 to $137, as a taxpayer, he would
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July 26, 2023
Page 43
rather see a less dramatic increase year over year than one low year and one high year.
With that being said, the $100 isn’t a fixed number, $110 isn’t a fixed number; that was
our target to stay as close to as possible. One of the things that initially bothered him
when he got on the Council was with budgeting; cost of services sold or rendered is the
cost of services. The City only has a few ways of making money, and one of them is
raising taxes; so, if you need to increase revenues, increasing the levy is how you
increase revenues. Or, we find market opportunities to increase fee for service to
generate revenue, or we get creative with land leasing or leasing our water towers to
cellular companies. So, as much as he has heartburn about going over that $100, he
thinks outside of austerity or fee for service or some sort of land lease, our options are
limited.
Council Member Olsen stated don’t forget we also do a great job of chasing public
funds that are available, with grants and loans, and he knows the exercise equipment
staff is talking to Marathon about maybe funding that through their program. Our staff
chases that stuff really well.
Council Member Khambata stated he’s kind of on board with Mayor Bailey, but he
thinks asking for $319K instead of $350K is austerity, asking for $55K instead of $110K
is austerity. We’re offsetting or we’re delaying some of these funds to see how the
budget shakes out for next year in terms of revenues; he thinks if we truly want to get
back to $100, he thinks we’re going to need to get creative with grants or with fee for
service or with finding additional grand lease revenue streams. So, he thinks as much
as he also wants it to be $100, he doesn’t think we’re positioned to get $100 the way we
are. He thinks we need to get more aggressive with some of those other revenue
streams if we want to stay closer to that $100 for future years. Or get real serious about
austerity, are we going to leave positions open or forego equipment; we’re dealing with
the long-term fallout of delaying equipment and leaving positions open right now, it's
what we’ve been discussing. So, he doesn’t know that there’s much more austerity we
have in this year’s budget without creating another cycle of trying to catch up next year.
Council Member Thiede asked if we take the $90 to $99, what would the $148 become.
Council Member Khambata replied $137. So, yeah, $100 to $137 he thinks is going
to be a lot more jolting to somebody than $110 to $110 or $106; again, $100 could be
the target, that’s what we’re shooting for with the levy, but things cost what they cost.
Three plow trucks turned into two plow trucks; we don’t have control of some of those
external factors. So, unless we bring in additional revenue streams, the levy is the
revenue stream.
Council Member Thiede stated it’s just a pet peeve that he has because once you go
over that $100, and then $110 doesn’t seem that bad, it’s just a little bit.
Council Member Khambata stated it just keeps creeping up.
Council Member Thiede stated, and every expense that you have is just a little bit
more, and he knows staff hates it when he comes in and talks about this because staff
does a fantastic job. They spend a lot of time on this and everything, but there’s a
limited supply of money. He knows that over the time that he’s been on Council, we’ve
gotten different places where we’ve increased fees and things like that, and he knows
costs go up and things like that. But we’re also growing, we’re a very fast-growing
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July 26, 2023
Page 44
community. There’s two sides to that; we do have to give more services, but technically,
if we’ve got that growth, then we’re getting more. Most of the homes that we see going
in are higher-value homes, which ultimately pay more taxes. He knows that those taxes
are delayed, but one of the things that he’s always said is getting those amenities by the
increase in population, etc. Yet, we still kind of always creep up, and he knows he’s
heard all the arguments about us being below average; he especially want to be better
off than Woodbury, though.
Mayor Bailey told Council Member Thiede you won’t have to worry about that.
Council Member Thiede stated well, I don't know. Mayor Bailey stated he knows.
Council Member Thiede stated oh, okay. There’s kind of got to be a limit; there is not an
unlimited supply of money.
Council Member Khambata stated there’s always an unlimited supply to build
something.
Mayor Bailey stated the one big thing about all of this, he guesses part of the $113,
yes, it’s $3 more than the $110, he gets what Council Member Thiede’s talking about.
The question is what do we get for it, what does the public get for it, and that’s really
how he looks at it.
Council Member Olsen stated it’s the level of service.
Mayor Bailey stated yes, and to Council Member Thiede’s point, we could do it at
$90 or we could do it at $100, but that will come at a cost of something. And whether it’s
not getting the plow routes plowed quickly, or the roads redone fast enough, or parks
not being groomed enough, the ambulance doesn’t get there quick enough or the Fire
trucks. There’s all these different things you’ve got to kind of weigh, and that’s why
we’re in this role, we try to balance it. The one thing that Council Member Khambata
said earlier, with which he really agrees, is what he doesn’t like is when we’re down
here, then we’re up here, and then we’re down here. When you try to explain this to
anybody, everybody just wants us to make it stable. If it’s stable, it won’t be these huge
peaks and valleys. What has happened in the past, and sometimes rightfully so,
because of what’s going on in the economy, but when we hunker down and we say
we’re not going to do anything, it does come back and bite us in the butt. Equipment
Replacement is a choice that we as a Council said we’re not going to put so much
money into the Equipment Replacement Fund. So, two things happened: 1) The price of
everything went up more than we thought; and 2) We drained that account because we
were buying, using money that was put in there to buy down. So, he just really likes the
Equipment Certificate idea now, he thinks it’s a great idea because we can kind of level
things off with that as an option going forward.
Mayor Bailey stated his personal goal was he did not want to go above 12%, and
maybe that number will come down a smidgeon once they kind of fine tune the
numbers, but he did not want to go over 12%. So, you could have said that’s austerity;
could you do the $350K in the Equipment Replacement and have it bump up above
12%, you could. But he personally didn’t want to do that, and he wanted to give more to
the Equipment Replacement, he wanted to see what we could do for the C.S.O.
situation, and he wanted to see if we could get that siren in. So, that’s where he’s at with
the one column there.
Council Member Dennis stated he supports the one Mayor Bailey picked.
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July 26, 2023
Page 45
Mayor Bailey asked Council Member Olsen if he was good with that one; Council
Member Olsen replied yes.
Council Member Khambata stated just to be clear, if we pick the last option, then the
2025 levy looks like what exactly. Director Malinowski replied it will be $105, so we kind
of move the needle a little bit. Council Member Khambata stated okay.
Council Member Olsen asked Administrator Levitt if they got what they need.
Administrator Levitt replied yes, but stated we always talk about communication. So,
Director Larson needs to know your messaging, what are your key messages and
points and things you’d like to highlight regarding this budget. Is there a message to the
public? Director Larson is here to take notes and take your ideas of how you want to
communicate.
Mayor Bailey told Council we’ve done different things over the years to message to
the public. He believes we’ve previously done the Cottage Grove Reports, so asked if
we’re still doing that, and that was confirmed.
Council Member Olsen stated we did the video, too.
Mayor Bailey stated he’d made a comment to Director Larson, as we talked a little bit
before the meeting, that he would be fine doing a Mayor’s Moment as a discussion of
the budget, so we can do it that way. He wasn’t sure if we wanted to do a separate
video; is it worth it to do something from a SWCTC situation as a separate message
other than him as the mayor doing the Mayor’s Moment for budget.
Council Member Olsen stated it sort of depends on how they would formulate that.
The thing that’s nice about a video, no matter who does it, is you have the opportunity to
use visuals; at one point in time, we used a dollar bill and showed how cents from the
dollar bill went to each department. One of the things you’ve always talked about that he
thinks is extremely important is what are we spending and what are the taxpayers
getting for that; of course, we’re all taxpayers, too. So, what is Public Safety going to
look like as a result of this budget, what is our Parks Department going to look like, etc.
To him, this 14th plow route is an unbelievable selling point. The additional care for the
parks, including the pickleball, etc., those are things that people like. The vast majority
of the public feels very strongly, as we do, about Public Safety; that siren is a Public
Safety piece, the police officers are a Public Safety piece, as are the additional C.S.O.s
as they monitor the parks, and we’ve heard a lot about our parks, so that’s a great
selling point. Whether it’s Mayor Bailey talking about it or SWCTC doing a video, or
both, he thinks those are some key points to touch on.
Council Member Khambata stated last year’s increase was over 12%, too, wasn’t it;
Director Malinowski replied it was 12.6%. Council Member Khambata stated and now
we’re down to 9.99%. Mayor Bailey stated our rate will even go down again.
Council Member Olsen stated yes, so, we need to talk about that. We need to talk
about the fact that the tax rate will go down. Granted, we don’t have final County
numbers on valuations yet, so, we don’t have precise information. Mayor Bailey stated
but we will before we get to the final levy. Council Member Olsen stated we will have
somewhat of an estimate. You can already say at that number that we just picked our
tax rate will go down; Director Malinowski stated that’s correct. He stated that’s
something else we need to communicate. Why is that? Because the taxes are being
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July 26, 2023
Page 46
spread across a wider variety of properties, including much more commercial; more
commercial development has put less pressure on the property owner. All of those
things are good things.
Administrator Levitt stated last year, Mayor Bailey did just the budget video as his
Mayor’s Moment. We also put an article in the Cottage Grove Reports. Mayor Bailey
stated that’s why he’s asking, as that’s what we did last year. We have done more in
years past.
Council Member Olsen stated we should leave that to the professionals, whether it’s
Mayor Bailey, SWCTC, both, Cottage Grove Reports, all of those are good avenues of
communication. The hardest thing we do is try to get the attention of the public, to
communicate things to them. That’s why rumors and bad information always run
rampant. We have to find a way to get accurate data out into the public sphere. He
asked if we would ever want a Department Head to speak about how their department
is going to benefit due to this year’s budget.
Administrator Levitt stated we’ve done that in the past, the last one actually had
Public Works Director Burshten in it; that tells you how long ago it was since we did that.
In that one, each director spoke about something from their department.
Council Member Olsen asked Director Koerner how he felt about that. Director
Koerner replied for the amount of work and time we put into that, we didn’t get a lot of
views.
Mayor Bailey stated that’s how he was looking at it; he wanted to make sure it would
be worthwhile. Director Larson stated she and Administrator Levitt both have the
information on last year’s video. You’re right, the longer the video, the fewer the views;
it’s just a fact of life now. The shorter you can make anything, more informational, more
fun, more interesting, it’s going to be better for folks to watch it.
Director Koerner stated all departments are struggling with recruitment and retention,
so he just did a joint meeting with Woodbury; basically, they’re also trying to hire
C.S.O.s there, too. They did something short, too.
Council Member Olsen stated he looks at the department heads as the subject
matter experts. They’re also not “politicians,” so they can speak with authority that we
sometimes can’t.
Director Larson stated we can do more than one video, too. We could do sound bites
about the budgets, and put them out over time as well. You could do the main one that
you need to do, or must do, but you can also do those things; hey, this is what we got
this year for X, sort of thing, and you can have the department heads do that.
Mayor Bailey stated that might not be such a bad idea, just do a 60-second blurb that
can be linked on Facebook. Director Dockter could do one on Parks or even Dennis or
Adam at River Oaks.
Council Member Olsen stated people tune in when Mayor Bailey talks, they tune in
to your Facebook page, maybe you’re part of that and maybe you’re interviewing them
or something. These are all ideas.
Mayor Bailey stated we can talk, but if there was something specific that Council
really was passionate about that he needed to do, he’d be fine with that. The only other
thing he’ll share that we can talk about is he was actually talking to our County
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July 26, 2023
Page 47
Commissioner, and the circulation now at the Cottage Grove Journal newspaper is now
over 2,000. So, that might be something where we want to work with them on an article
with like a Q & A. Director Larson said yes, absolutely, anytime you can put something
in a local paper that’s factual and educates the public, that’s a good thing.
Council Member Olsen stated make sure it’s factual; Director Larson stated well, we
would write it, and Mayor Bailey said he’d work with Bruce at the paper. After the article
about the Mississippi Dunes Park, the number of people who approached him and said
they saw it in the St. Paul and Minneapolis papers was amazing. He also said that our
older residents aren’t necessarily on Facebook, they’re the ones who get the newspaper
because they like to stay informed; so, if we can help inform them, he thought that
would be a good idea.
Council Member Khambata stated as far as the format, can you start by highlighting
the amenity gained or saved and then at the end we talk about the cost; upfront, here’s
what you’re getting, here’s what we’re keeping, and here’s where we’re expanding.
Council Member Olsen stated again that’s why he thinks the department heads can
really speak with authority is in order to maintain our level of service or in order to
enhance our level of service. The 14th plow route he feels is a massive change and
that’s going to save so much time that it will be a big win for people.
Mayor Bailey asked Director Larson if she got what she needed; she replied, yes,
you were all very clear.
Council Member Thiede told Director Malinowski before we decide, he’d like to get the
tax for the next two years that wasn’t written down for the four properties; Director
Malinowski stated okay.
4. ADJOURNMENT
Council Member Khambata made a motion to adjourn; second by Council Member
Olsen. Motion carried: 5-0. The meeting was adjourned at 9:19 p.m.
Minutes were transcribed by Judy Graf, reviewed by Tamara Anderson, City Clerk.